Monday, June 17, 2024

Reason v Belief and Feelings

 


Our friend Shaw at Progressive Eruptions wondered, "Why is it that we can see beyond Trump's lies and con games but his cultists cannot, no matter the amount of evidence we put before them?"

There are a number of reasons I can cite off the top of my head that don’t support the necessary willful blindness of the Trump cult.

1. We are actively literate and value education.

2. We have a healthy sense of curiosity. Open minds work better than closed minds.

3. We are not gullible.

4.  We prefer verifiable fact-based reality instead of the "alternative facts" from Trumpists.

5. We are not authoritarian personalities.

6. We value compassion and decency in our personal lives and in public policies.

7. We are not frightened, xenophobic, white Christian nationalists.

8. We are not bigots and racists.

9. We recognize sociopathic liars when we see them.

10. If we live in isolated rural white communities we don't embrace the limited world views that most of them have.

11. We actually know the differences between socialism, fascism and communism.

12. We value critical thinking beyond bumper sticker slogans.

13. We support democracy, unobstructed voting rights, fair representation, and equal justice under law.

14. We value free speech, a free press, and ALL of the First Amendment including the freedom of religion and the implied freedom FROM religion. Their church is NOT our government.

15. We don't scapegoat marginalized minorities or define ourselves by the people we hate.

16. We prefer informed and rational understanding over beliefs determined by emotional reactions and hurt FEELINGS.

I'm sure this list is far from complete because nobody has ALL the answers, especially Trumpists.

43 comments:

Dave Miller said...

I would not go so far as to lump all rural folks in one bucket. I know plenty of folks from the other side of the divide who are very trump leery, but also don't feel as if Biden speaks for them at all or that the Dems want their votes.

Same with religious voters. HRC eschewed that community as un gettable. But then Obama asked for their consideration and votes, and what happened? He won. The Obama campaign will tell you they ran the same campaign as HRC did with one exception, that outreach to religious voters.

And there are plenty of facts to back this up.

What should we all do with this? It's part of the problem vexing America right now.

JoeBama "Truth 101" Kelly said...

I normally hesitate to accuse people of bigotry as I think we're all bigoted to some degree. What I find among the Trumpists though are two emotions. Fear and selfishness. I know many who by all accounts should be anti Trump yet they will outwardly support him in fear they may be ridiculed or bullied by the diehards. My observation anyway for what that's worth. Selfishness, or greed perhaps. is another. So many think tax cuts will benefit them when it's been shown they benefit the wealthiest while being of very little difference to those of the middle class. My tax cut under Trump amounted to about $7 a paycheck. If $7 is the difference between poverty and want and a happy life then perhaps those who thought that was a boon should rethink their situations and get an extra job or cut back on their lifestyles. They hate it when their errors are pointed out. We all want our opinions to matter and nobody wants to be called stupid. So they say false things about Biden. Frankly, everyone I know has fared economically far better while Biden's been president than Bush, Obama or Trump. My hope is the DNC or whoever runs the messaging for the Dems can figure out how to make the Trumpers feel good and smart for abandoning Trump. As much as I'm with Thomas Jefferson and feeling ridicule is the way to deal with the less enlightened? Perhaps telling them they're smart and we're listening may start swaying them. But alas, Trumpists cling to hope that Trump loves them and wants them to be happy. We know that's malarkey but hell, sometimes you gotta throw the dog a bone.

Dave Dubya said...

Dave,
I hear you. I'm from a small white community. I clarified my point with with a slight edit:

"If we live in isolated rural white communities we don't embrace the limited world views that most of them have."

Obama ran an excellent campaign and was also very charismatic. I think the facts that war weariness was setting in and the Bush recession was hitting us made his win more likely.

And Hillary had a lot of "entitlement" and "Clinton fatigue" baggage to overcome. But she still WON the POPULAR vote. The Electoral College, along with the antidemocratic Senate, might just prove to be the major factors in the failure of our democratic republic.




Dave Dubya said...

JoeBama,
I agree that there's a trace of bigotry in most, if not all, people. Anyone can be suspicious of strangers or those from a different religion/race/nationality.

But when willful ignorance, deep fear, and hatred enter the picture, they become true bigots.

I agree the best way to communicate with Trumpists is to first establish what we have in common. We are Americans who want what's best for the country and our fellow citizens.

How to convince them of facts they don't want to know is a more difficult matter. They are not as open to other views as we are.

As you see, I've offered a template for them to fill out if they want to show me where I am wrong or mistaken. I'm happy to engage in good faith discussion.

Unfortunately, most of them are not. When they are indoctrinated by Trump to see us as "Communists, Marxists, Fascists, and Radical Left Thugs that live like vermin", good faith discussion is shut down.

Only the most radicalized koolade drinkers among them would attempt to justify that kind of hate and smearing.

Maybe a good start would be to ask them WHY they would BELIEVE Trump that we are "Communists, Marxists, Fascists, and Radical Left Thugs that live like vermin". I think many would back off and just say that's Trump's "hyperbole" and "exaggeration".

This could make an opening for communication. I live next door to one, but we are neighbors with shared interests who both own firearms, so we get along.


Anonymous said...

\\I agree the best way to communicate with Trumpists is to first establish what we have in common.

And that is... NOT Logic... obviously. ;-P




\\How to convince them of facts they don't want to know is a more difficult matter.

Absolutely not difficult. Obviously.

It's just that "facts"... need to REAL DEAL facts.

AKA

Open and Obvious, References to Reality itself. ;-P

Something EVERYBODY can see and admit for themself.

NOT something that need this or that belief... in it being fact (like that that Jesus resurrected are "obvious fact"... but for Christians ONLY (well, not all of em, even))




\\They are not as open to other views as we are.

Yeah... you are very "open"... to your false beliefs. ;-P





\\As you see, I've offered a template for them to fill out if they want to show me where I am wrong or mistaken. I'm happy to engage in good faith discussion.

Only... you WILL NOT disclose that parts of that "good faith discussion" you have nothing to answer, too. ;-p




\\Maybe a good start would be to ask them WHY they would BELIEVE Trump that we are "Communists, Marxists, Fascists, and Radical Left Thugs that live like vermin". I think many would back off and just say that's Trump's "hyperbole" and "exaggeration".

Isn't there was somebody from your side... that said it... "they are deplorables", or not???

There is NO such fact?

Or... your belief FORBIDS you to admit such facts? ;-P



Dave Dubya said...

Anonymous,
Thank you for commenting on what I actually wrote. If you want to stay on topic for good faith discussion without personal attacks, please indicate a way to identify yourself. Initials or any word would suffice.

If you want to contribute here respect my reasonable guidelines and don't be an asshole troll.

Back to the topic.

Trumpists reject facts because they BELIEVE the pathological liar Donald Trump. Many think he was sent by God to "save America". There is NO reasoning with that delusion.

Their cult beliefs must reject verifiable facts and evidence.

Facts: In 2020 Trump lost, lied, and criminally tried to steal the election.
By ALL counts, recounts, certifications, Trump’s DOJ, Trump’s Homeland Security, audits and 60 courts:
Biden 51.3%
81,283,501 Popular votes
306 Electoral Votes
Trump 46.8%
74,223,975 Popular votes
232 Electoral Votes

Fact: Trump's lies are gospel to his true believers and ALL the above verifiable facts are rejected. In fact the Republican Party platform is nothing but whatever Trump says it is. They are authoritarians who want a dictator and Trump wants to be above the law.

Fact: Trump incited an angry mob to go to the Capitol to "fight like hell" to "take our country back" and "stop the steal". The latter is called projection, and used to cover HIS attempt to STEAL the election.

His mob of deplorables (including neo-Nazis and other racist groups) terrorized Congress and beat cops bloody in their attempt to stop our lawful election certification.

Hillary was correct about the racist element in (not ALL) Trump supporters: “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

You said, "It's just that "facts"... need to REAL DEAL facts. AKA Open and Obvious, References to Reality itself. ;-P Something EVERYBODY can see and admit for themself."

Like everybody saw the sun orbiting around planet Earth, which is "obviously" flat?

Trump obviously lost by ALL measures and counts. Trump and his deplorables didn't want to admit what they didn't want to know.

Then they tried to say it was "antifa" who stormed the Capitol and tried to blame Speaker Pelosi. Trump's fogged mind even tried to blame Nikki Haley for it, confusing the two women in his deranged rant.

We all saw what really happened, but a cult will choose to believe their leader over anything and anyone else, even what their own eyes have seen.

(continues)

Dave Dubya said...

Lies, violence, and rejection of fair elections are the foundation of fascism. Trump has proven repeatedly that he is a fascist.

His insurrectionist actions indicate he emulates Hitler's 1923 Putsch.

His words echo Hitler's hate rhetoric.

"We will Root out the Communists, Marxists, Fascists, and Radical Left Thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country…
They’re poisoning the blood of our country. That’s what they’ve done.
Just a quick reminder for liberal Jews who voted to destroy America and Israel because you believed false narratives!
Let's hope you learned from your mistake and make better choices moving forward!
Any Jewish person that votes for Democrats hates their religion.
Would you rather have the Black president or the white president?
I think they want the white guy.
Hitler did a lot of good things."

- Donald Trump

We know damn well "Communists, Marxists, Fascists, and Radical Left Thugs that live like vermin" is a LIE, he's talking about Democrats and the legal system holding him accountable for his crimes. The real fascist thugs are himself and the brutes he PRAISED for storming the Capitol.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” ~ Maya Angelou

Disagree if you must, but show relevant facts as evidence to support your claims.

fair warning: If you make it about me instead of the subject, you're not getting published.

Dave Miller said...

Dave, you stated, speaking of why ppl might believe DJT, in spite of his prodigious lying...

"Trumpists reject facts because they BELIEVE the pathological liar Donald Trump.

The question is why that is. What is that has made otherwise smart ppl go over the moon for a guy who verifiably lies like a rug?

Perhaps conservative and long time GOP insider Peter Wehner has a clue with his term "Motivated Ignorance". Here's how he defines it...

"Motivated ignorance refers to *willfully blinding* oneself to facts. It’s choosing not to know. In many cases, for many people, knowing the truth is simply too costly, too psychologically painful, too threatening to their core identity."

BTW, I think your anonymous commenter is one of the many personalities of -FJ...

Dave Miller said...

Dave, Anon will never have any link or evidence to support his view because ppl like him stand on their surety that all the evidence they know to exist and be true has been covered up, taken away or we have prevented from seeing it by the "Deep State" or some other nefarious group.

And the fact it does not exist in the general purview of the public, to them, is proof of what they believe.

They've set up a situation that cannot be proven wrong, yet has no evidence.

So what do we do?

Les Carpenter said...

I just completed a 7 day retreat (Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism) with NDF (National Dharma Fellowship) and the entire Sanga expressed great concern over the upcoming election. Hopefully Biden reaches out to Buddhists as well as Christians and Muslims. At my last check there was over 6 million of us. And the numbers continue to grow.

Great list Dave. I note I live in a rather rural town in MA that has a goodly amount of Trump cultists. The folks I've talked to can't point to one positive thing Trump offers. Other than he ain't Biden or a Democrat. Oh yeah, and how we were better of with Trump relative to inflation. Duh.

Dave Dubya said...

Dave,

Peter Wehner's term "Motivated Ignorance" is another way of confirming what we call willful ignorance.

Why do they embrace the lies? It sure as hell isn't about giving the rich more tax cuts. Obviously it has nothing to do with "family values", as their Felonious philandering Fuhrer has no respect for marriage. They don't give a crap about that.

They want to DOMINATE over women and the majority, because as authoritarian personalities they hate democracy and the idea of equality. They crave a "big daddy" to protect them and justify their ignorance and hate.

The lies reflect THEIR "truth", which is about hate, racism, xenophobia, "white fright", scapegoating, and above all, who they FEEL threatens them. The white nationalist "great replacement" and Trumpism is all about triggered emotions. MRI studies show Authoritarian personalities share an enlarged and over-active amygdala, the reptilian fight/flight primitive part of the brain.

It comes down to basic personality traits. Authoritarian followers will always follow authoritarian leaders who incite fear and resentment of others. This bonds them to a common cause. A quarter to a third of any given population will have an authoritarian personality. Emotions guide their beliefs as reason guides the rest of us.

I suggest reading John Dean's "Conservatives without Conscience" and "Authoritarian Nightmare". As Nixon's White House Counsel, he had plenty of experience with authoritarian personalities.

What do we do?

We should understand what most of them are. They are NOT interested in good faith discussion or honest debate. They want to dominate, and they do it through political force and/or violence.

We can only speak the truth as loudly and often as we can, in hopes that more so-called "independents" and "moderates" understand them as well.

Polls are showing a post-conviction shift away from Trump. We need more convictions, but the corrupt red hats of the Supreme Court have already obstructed justice and gave him his virtual immunity until after the election.

McConnell, Trump, and Roberts have become the the primary assassins of our democracy. We can't let them win.

Dave Dubya said...

Les,
I bet you enjoyed your week of peace and sanity. Welcome back to the asylum.

Your local yokels are typical of small lily-white communities. The peer pressure to conform is powerful. Some of us learned to free our minds.

I was an odd kid who spent more time reading books than going out hunting and fishing, although I certainly did participate in the outdoor "sports". No longer, of course. I don't need the meat and no longer get a thrill out of killing animals. So I grew out of it.

I DO love photographing wildlife. It involves similar techniques as hunting and gives the same adrenaline rush as shooting them.

Some Fox photos:
http://www.davedubya.com/2018/06/good-fox-news.html

Les Carpenter said...

Nature and wildlife can be great teachers. If we allow them to be that for us.

I too gave up hunting years ago, having lost the desire to kill another being. Even if non human. My meat consumption is but a fraction of what it once was.

If you have some pictures of your wildlife photography I'd love to see some if you're willing. I have a picture of a lion and gorilla that was taken by a friend who went on an African safari to take pictures. Using a powerful telephoto lens both pictures are close up head shots. The eyes of both tell me they certainly possess consciousness and perhaps a rudimentary intelligence. In fact I'd probably vote for either of them before I'd vote for Trump!

Dave Dubya said...

Les,
All I have online are my Good Fox News (Not FOX News) Photos


Les Carpenter said...

Nice shots Dave. You have an eye for wildlife photography.

Dave Dubya said...

Thanks, Les.

It was a successful fox hunt without hounds, horses, or firearms. It did require some quiet stalking. And the joy in watching the young kits getting weaned and frolicking in their new lives was a delightful reward, in contrast to the chump change for a few pelts.

Anonymous said...

You seem to have a FIXATION ON HITLER . One has to we if you actually liked him?

Dave Dubya said...

Anonymous,
Thank you for your observation and, um, question.

First some background information.

I am a student of American History and the Second World War. My father-in-law was with Patton's 3rd Army when they liberated Buchenwald after his regiment relieved the 101st Airborne under siege in Bastogne.

Let me ask you a question that might answer yours, if I understand your terms correctly.

In case you have not noticed, I don't like Trump. I compare his authoritarian neo-fascist lies, scapegoating, racism, and demonizing hate-mongering rhetoric to Hitler's similar ranting.

Examples:

We will Root out the Communists, Marxists, Fascists, and Radical Left Thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country…
They’re poisoning the blood of our country. That’s what they’ve done.
Just a quick reminder for liberal Jews who voted to destroy America and Israel because you believed false narratives!
Let's hope you learned from your mistake and make better choices moving forward!
Any Jewish person that votes for Democrats hates their religion.
Would you rather have the Black president or the white president?
I think they want the white guy.
Hitler did a lot of good things.
- Donald Trump

What can you conclude from this information? If you're unable to reach an answer, then there's no point in discussing the issue with someone so dense.

Just the Facts! said...

Name a society that thrived because it had a large and growing class of parasites living off those that produce.

Dave Dubya said...

Vern,
"Parasites".

Most people who needed safety nets went on to self-sufficiency.

Yes, you always prove greedy conservatives find it easier give the finger to those in need while real Christians, socialists and Democrats want to follow your former Savior's commandment to offer a helping hand.

And what do Republicans want to do with our hard earned Social Security? Cut, dismantle, and hand it over to your servants of mammon.

What do they want to do with health care for the poor? CUT and DENY.

What do they want to do with those with Obama Care? DENY, DENY, DENY.

The same for school lunches and food stamps.

You lip-service fake Christians are the most heartless, cold-blooded excuses for humans. Far WORSE than any of your so-called "parasites".

Meanwhile you want to give the rich more tax cuts and corporations more power to write our laws. You support a sex offender, election denier, insurrectionist, and convicted felon for president.

Have you no decency? No shame?

Les Carpenter said...

Vern and associates fail to recognize some of them are the planets biggest parasites.

In general the majority of human forms are parasites today. It wasn't always that way.

Anonymous said...

\\Hitler did a lot of good things.
- Donald Trump

Yeah. You dRump-derenged lying scum. ;-P

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave M.: "Same with religious voters. HRC eschewed that community as un gettable."

I'm not sure how one would define that group as "religious."

IMO, Joe Biden is the most religious POTUS we've had since Jimmy Carter. Biden lives his faith; and from what I've observed, he has done so his entire life.

We seen in real time that Trump is NOT religious and never has been. In fact, one could observe that he's broken the majority of the 10 Commandments that his followers want to put in our secular classrooms.

So my question is: Of the two men seeking the presidency this year, Joe Biden is the only one who the "un gettable" should be all in for. But, instead, they've lined up behind the least religious candidate. What's the explanation for that?

Is the "religious right" actually religious? By observation, one has to say NO! And religion is not the primary factor that leads them to support Trump. I think it is a number of things that Dave Dubya has mentioned, but religion isn't one of them.

IMO, MAGA are not rational, and they are caught up in worshipping a false god.

Dave Dubya said...

Shaw,
You're right. There's nothing Christian about Christian Nationalism. It's full of uneducated bigots, racists, Klansmen, Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and child-molesting pastors.

At best they are single issue, anti-choice authoritarians. Jesus said NOTHING about abortion.

~~~~

And let's have a look at our nasty, and rude asshole of a Trump sucker. I included his radical authoritarian follower BELIEF in Trump as support for my case. Obviously he can't admit Trump has a long record of praising dictators like Putin and Kim.

Let's note that unlike Trump the convicted FELON and his criminal cronies, retired general Kelly honorably served our country and upheld his oath to our Constitution. Anyone who takes the word of Trump over him has identified himself as a true believer in the cult.

Among the numerous accounts of Kelly's report on Trump.
=

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-complained-generals-werent-hitlers-book-says-rcna42114

Trump once complained that his generals weren't like Hitler's, book says
The exchange with then-White House chief of staff John Kelly was detailed in an excerpt from a forthcoming book by journalists Susan Glasser and Peter Baker.


“You f---ing generals, why can’t you be like the German generals?” Trump asked then-White House chief of staff John Kelly, according to an excerpt of “The Divider: Trump in the White House, 2017-2021,” co-written by New Yorker staff writer Susan Glasser and New York Times correspondent Peter Baker.

When Kelly asked Trump for clarification, the president reportedly replied by specifying, “The German generals in World War II."

Kelly, a retired Marine general, then asked Trump whether he knew that those generals "tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off."

According to the excerpt, Trump dismissed Kelly's historically accurate description, insisting, "No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him."

Kelly, in an interview with NBC News on Tuesday, confirmed the accuracy of the account in the book excerpt. He said he would tell Trump that the American generals’ first loyalty is to the U.S. Constitution and the rule of law.

Kelly described Trump’s “unwillingness to accept that the American generals should not be loyal to him as the German generals were to the leader of Germany. And, again, I very definitely pointed out that they tried to kill him [Hitler] a number of times.”

=
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-praised-hitler-for-doing-a-lot-of-good-things-says-new-book/

Trump praised Hitler for doing ‘a lot of good things,’ says new book
Former US president allegedly made remark to his then-chief of staff John Kelly during 2018 trip to Europe, ‘was undeterred’ by pushback


=
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hitler-john-kelly-bender-b1879548.html

Trump said Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’, new book claims
Even after John Kelly informed Donald Trump that ‘he was wrong’, the ex-president remained ‘undeterred’


===
" Yeah. You dRump-derenged lying scum. ;-P"

Now THAT is projection, a universal trait of the radical Right.

I suppose we can take into account this obnoxious little troll has only an elementary understanding of the English language, or is simply an idiot.

It is truly a mark of a true believer cultist when they take his word over everyone else's.

I must still thank this miserable wretch for letting me live rent-free in his disturbed hate-filled head.

I am honored by his being so triggered, and dare I say entertained? I must be doing something right. ;-P

He adds to our long list of examples of the cult infected by Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Anonymous said...

OK, Google "Trump Derangement Syndrome."

Trump derangement syndrome
Trump derangement syndrome is a pejorative term, usually for criticism or negative reactions to former United States president Donald Trump that are perceived to be irrational and to have little regard towards Trump's actual policy positions, or actions undertaken by his administration. Wikipedia


PS Shot your leg, cretin? ;-P

Dave Dubya said...

Anonymous,

Thank you for your last gasp of desperation by a definition of Trump derangement syndrome in Wikipedia.

Let's amend this definition to make it more accurate, as Wiki allows.

Trump derangement syndrome is a pejorative term, usually for criticism or negative reactions to former United States president Donald Trump that are "PERCEIVED" (by the deluded fanatics who BELEIVE Trump never lies) to be irrational and to have little regard towards Trump's actual policy positions, or actions to undertaken by his administration.

Actual derangement is in BELEIVING Trump won the 2020 election despite having no evidence of massive voter fraud or of Trump winning more votes.

Derangement is denial of the certified counts and results and 100% BELEIF in The infallible HOLY WORDS Donald Trump:

Trump lost, lied, and criminally tried to steal the election.
By ALL counts, recounts, certifications, Trump’s DOJ, Trump’s Homeland Security, audits and 60 courts:
Biden 51.3%
81,283,501 Popular votes
306 Electoral Votes
Trump 46.8%
74,223,975 Popular votes
232 Electoral Votes

Derangement is in DENYING wrongdoing by the indicted fake elector CRIMINALS who who drafted FRAUDULENT election certifications.

Derangement is storming the Capitol, terrorizing Congress, and beating cops bloody to OVERTURN our election.

Derangement is thinking Trump was doing his constitutional duty by ALLOWING this to happen for HOURS while watching his violent coup on TV, refusing pleas to order his mob to leave.

True Trump Derangement Syndrome is the unquestioning BELIEF in the LIES from their malevolent mendacious messiah as their creed and gospel. It has become their demented cult religion.


That should about cover it.

Keep sending your fan mail, you deranged cultist. I LOVE deleting your hateful bullshit, but find you to be a useful case example of True Trump Derangement Syndrome.

And thanks for being one of by biggest fans!

Dave Dubya said...

Hey, Vern!

How are you going to explain to Jesus your support for a convicted FELON, sex offender, and purveyor of hate and lies who has the support of the worst servants of mammon"

Billionaire businessman Timothy Mellon, the grandson of Gilded Age plutocrat Andrew Mellon, made a $50 million donation to a pro-Donald Trump super PAC last month, a day after the former president was convicted by a New York jury on 34 felony counts.

We can only conclude your "values" are more aligned with giving that kind of person more tax cuts while cutting social security for retirees and healthcare and food for the poor.

How do you think THAT will impress Jesus and convince him of your faith, as you IGNORE his commandments?

Your Christian nationalism is truly anti-Christ.

Anonymous said...

Yay!

Now you decided to shot out your dumb head. :-))))))))))))))))))))))

YOUR WORDS: "He adds to our long list of examples of the cult infected by Trump Derangement Syndrome."?


..."PERCEIVED" (by the deluded fanatics who BELEIVE Trump never lies)...

So, you perceive ITself, having TDS??? %-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))




FYI, I am foreigner... who do not give a shit about your so-called POTUSes. ;-P

And you -- just revealed that all DEMN-aligned people in USA are cretins.

Congratulations! For demoting international standing of your country, cretin.

But, you surely do not care, because you think that Earth is flat and there is NOTHING else on ot, except 'Merica, yes, cretin? %-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Dave Dubya said...

Thanks, Anonymous.

Now we understand you're pro-Trump, therefor pro-Putin, pro-Orban, pro-Kim, and anti-NATO.

Authoritarian personalities are in every country and I thank you for proving another of my points.

Just the Facts! said...

Hey Dave, I'd answer you but from past experience I have no reason to believe you would publish my answers. Why should I waste my time?

Why is it greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to take somebody else's money?

P.S. Your hate is showing.

Dave Dubya said...

We get it Vern. You are TERRIFIED by my question. It forces you examine your true nature, and it is uglier than you can admit.

What makes you think I wouldn't publish your answer, when I publish your weak evasions?

Why do you think billionaires shouldn't pay taxes? They are exactly the servants of mammon Jesus spoke of. And you defend their GREED, not to mention the hate and lies of Donald Trump. Too bad you surrendered your conscience to Trump.

Who benefits from giving Trump $50 million? Trump is also extorting Big Oil for a BILLION in donations to cut regulations for them. And your "values" cannot see that is total CORRPTION.

Greed is their ONLY value. And yours as well, apparently.

As economist and JFK advisor John Kenneth Galbraith said, “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

This is your religion, Vern. You made it quite clear. Trump is your messiah. Greed is your God.

Les Carpenter said...

The extreme negativity in American politics since 2008, when the racist republican party decided it's highest purpose was to deny President Obama a second term, has only continued to worsen since. The former guy simply put the party's negativity and racism on steriods.

Really, does anyone really believe that the trajectory the republican party is going to change so it wakes up and starts to act like a responsible, concerned, aware, and compassionate party anytime in the foreseeable future?

I think not. And IF Trump wins and the deluded party takes back the senate and holds the house all bets are off. We may never recover that which we as a nation gave up. A democratic republic and the freedoms and liberties that form of government allows. And that is the problem for some conservatives and Christian Nationalists and neo-Nazis in the republican party.

Dave Dubya said...

Yes, Les,
They ARE fascists who think they can take "their country" back.

All they're doing is eroding our democratic republic into an authoritarian police state, as what ALWAYS happens when their ilk takes over a country.

Shaw Kenawe said...

"FYI, I am foreigner... who do not give a shit about your so-called POTUSes. ;-P"

Not to be believed!

It's the many-faces-of-troll -FJ. He gives himself away in the use of his words, expressions, grammar, and emoticons.

He switches between a fake nonEnglish grammar to PERFECT American-English grammar. When you're a fake, it's not easy to keep the fakery up.

"unknown" is no foreigner. It's -FJ/JoeCon/Thersites/unknown.

It's so obvious!

Dave Dubya said...

Shaw,

I'm not convinced he/them are US citizens. Russian troll/asset/useful idiot? Absolutely.

I've seen too many uses of English spellings for-FJ/JoeCon/Thersites to be American.

The "anonymous" version is quite obsessed with me, living rent-free in his head and sending me many "love notes". Bless his heart.

Just the Facts! said...

Shaw,

How do you get Dave to answer your questions or a post?

Dave Dubya said...

Vern,

So now you want to hassle Shaw for NO reason. Yeah, it's your innate rudeness again. Are ALL conservatives such jerks these days? Like Darrell, who write an entire post asking me what he thinks, so he bans me from responding.

He certainly showed us how a weak authoritarian position reflects moral cowardice.

Want an answer? How about you just look back over the comments and count how many questions of yours I answered and how many of mine YOU answered?

I'll tell you WHY you won't bother.

You don't want to learn what you don't want to know.

Like your incessant bad faith repulses decent people.

Or is that your goal in life? "Look at how Christian nationalist bigots can be such assholes! We don't give a damn about democracy, the sick, or the poor! We want more tax cuts for the rich and want to impose our authoritarian theocratic minority rule with Trump as our malevolent mendacious messiah."

There. Did I miss anything?

Just the Facts! said...

HEY Dave, afraid Shaw might give me an answer you don't like..looks like it, since you don't publish what I said we nothing but your word to go on..And we ALL know that's reliable, LMAO.
Wonder how Shaw feels about being used like a puppet?

Just the Facts! said...

Dave,

Was it lie when you told me you would publish my post if I posted under my name?

Dave Dubya said...

And there he goes. MORE bad faith and useless bullshit from a disrespectful and dishonest radical Right authoritarian personality who refuses to answer any questions, yet demands answers.

Shaw has no obligation to respond to his asinine trolling, nor does anyone else.

He's not sincere, doesn't want to communicate, and is here ONLY to aggravate and annoy.

I put his latest comments up to prove how utterly pointless it is to have a good faith discussion with him. All Vern can do is whine, accuse, and deflect. Well, I can accuse, too,

Trumpists like Vern are all turning into pre-adolescent brats who emulate their pouty, entitled, spoiled rotten, immoral, Felonious Fuhrer. They serve THE most indecent, destructive and dangerous leader this nation has ever had the tragic misfortune to endure. Putin is salivating for Trump to get back into power so he can have his way with Ukraine and Europe. Trump is abetting Putin's war of aggression because Trump wants to be a dictator too. And he doesn't give a damn about the ignorant dupes who vote for him. Their country will suffer for THEIR ignorance and fealty to a raging vengeance-seeking criminal.

Trump's ignorant and bigoted followers are addicted to their own hate just to FEEL superior to anyone who isn't degrading themselves to wallow in their slime pit that Trump makes them feel so at home in.

I'll let Vern see the words of a true conservative.

He can discuss or dispute them. And if he doesn't address these words, he is insulting my generosity and tolerance to allow his presence.

Here you go, Vern. If you have any conscience, decency, or moral courage left inside, tell us how this woman is so wrong, and how you and Trump are so right.

Last chance. Expect any deflections and accusations to be deleted.

Failure to respond in good faith to these words means goodbye and buzz off.

Liz Cheney December 4, 2022:
Donald Trump believes we should terminate “all rules, regulations and articles, even those found in the Constitution” to overturn the 2020 election. That was his view on 1/6 and remains his view today. No honest person can now deny that Trump is an enemy of the Constitution.

“Do not give power to people who have told us that they will not honor elections.”

“He is preying on their patriotism,” she said, turning “their love of country into a weapon... We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.”

6-9-22:
"On the morning of January 6, President Donald Trump's intention was to remain president of the United States, despite the lawful outcome of the 2020 election and in violation of his Constitutional obligation to relinquish power. President Trump summoned the mob, assembled the mob and lit the flame of this attack."

“To my Republican colleagues I say there will come a day when Donald Trump is gone but your dishonor will remain.”

6-6-22: This moment is a moral test for the Republican Party because of the mortal threat we face - and right now, there are too many in my party who are failing it.


~~~~

I accuse Vern of failing this moral test that Liz mentioned. I also accuse him of moral COWARDICE and unable to stand up for what he even believes. Because what he BELIEVES are LIES and HATE from a truly evil man who has proven to be the worst domestic enemy of our Constitutional republic and rule of law.

Or maybe he KNOWS Trump is a fraud, criminal, and liar, but wants to see him tear our country apart, just to inflict pain and punishment on people he HATES.

If that were the case, then Vern is a vile traitor who'd make a communist look like a patriot.

What say you, Vern? This is your chance to show some integrity, or just how despicable you're willing to be.


Shaw Kenawe said...

To “Just the Facts”

How do I get Dave Dubya to answer my questions?

I submit comments relating to his posts. And my blognym is attached to an actual blog, not blocked, like yours is. That is usually what many commenters do over at WYD blog. “Just the Facts” appears to be a troll.



Dave Dubya said...

Shaw,
"Just the Facts" has been around for over a decade. He would use multiple ID's per the "Troll Manual".

He inadvertently leaked his name a few years ago. His name is Tim, but we call him Vern because his middle initial is "V".

Needless to say he's never been known to be forthright, honest, or of good faith. He's a white Christian nationalist Republican, after all. A true authoritarian follower personality.

We have answered his questions here. Like someone else we know, he will ignore our questions and responses and go on to demand more answers and then whine about not getting them.

Always the aggressor, and always the "victim". Sound familiar?

Dave Dubya said...

Sorry, Vern.

I asked for your response to Liz Cheney. You deflected to Tyler Cherry.

Try again.