This final installment of our study of Contrarious Con-servatism returns to Mr. Paine’s characteristic con-servative pattern of evidence-free accusations. As usual he cites zero specific examples to support his case.
He makes up for it with a sweeping generalization tinged with projection, victimhood, and sanctimonious declarations. He apparently has decided it is “dehumanizing” to note the authoritarian and racist nature of Trump, his party, and their fans and defenders.
The shame is entirely on me for not calling them “very fine people”.
I’d like to add context for his rather defensive perception and misunderstanding of those “relying solely on their amygdala”. Not my wording, of course.
I have noted studies showing the clear inclination in conservatives of having more active amygdalas, the primitive center of the “fight or flight” mechanism in the brain. True to form, Mr. Paine projects this as “hate” and “wild-eyed propaganda” and “belief not grounded in fact”.
As with global warming, the scientific evidence supports my case over his beliefs. MRI scans have shown us this fact.
For those interested, Psychology Today has a couple articles introducing us to this phenomenon. They offer links to deeper analysis of the studies.
Enough with the rational explanations and references to science. It's time for Mr. Paine's final assault on the evils of liberalism and its nasty proponents.
“I’m sorry you see only hate in my remarks.” ~ Dubya
Mr. Dubya, it has long been the case that anyone with whom you disagree has been labeled an authoritarian or a racist or relying solely on their amygdala, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum by you. Such is your first amendment right; however, it destroys any credibility towards objectivity and truth that you purport to have. The only ones that accept your assertions, theories, and wild-eyed propaganda at face value are those that already believe precisely as you do. And it IS a “belief” often times and not grounded in fact. Something to consider: Perhaps I see hate in your remarks because there IS hate in your remarks. You have continuously labeled those that are conservative or supportive of Trump as being evil or complicit in evil. Not only is that often demonstrably false, but it exacerbates the hate and indecency which you claim to abhor, sir. Dehumanization always ends badly in the world’s history.
As for illegal aliens storming our borders, well… what word would you use for a mass of foreign nationals attempting to gain illegal access to our nation, particularly by means of assault through throwing rocks at our border agents? I have no problem with labeling them as would-be “invaders”. What I take offense to is your consistent, persistent, and hateful penchant for always bringing race into a discussion when it is simply not a factor. At least as far as the issue deals with me, you are the only one that cares what color their skin is evidently. I am looking at the content of their characters, or lack thereof in this case.
“ ‘Lies of Russian collusion’? Again, no evidence cited.” ~ Dubya
How do I cite evidence of something that does not exist? Really? When did you stop beating your wife? Provide evidence, please.
Truly if there was any collusion with Russia, it was done by Hillary when she was Secretary of State, and her campaign in 2016. As for your oft cited emoluments clause, if any CREDIBLE proof of illegal (foreign or otherwise) influence via bribery, favors, etc. can be ascertained to have occurred to any public official, that official should be removed from office and tried for any appropriate crimes accordingly. This goes for Trump, the Clintons, or anyone. For the record, there was far more evidence of Hillary being guilty of this with all of the unseemly donations by foreign nationals and governments to the Clinton Foundation when she was still Secretary of State. But let’s not get bogged down in the facts.
“We the people in our modern age have access to more information than early citizens, so the founders electoral justification that there would be remote uninformed voters no longer applies.” ~ Dubya
I don’t know why I ever expected any acknowledgement from you regarding the additional reasons for the electoral college that the Founders established. It goes against the Leftist agenda. As for the public being more informed today, you cannot seriously say that with a straight face. I’d be willing to bet that most college students can better name all of the Kardashians far quicker then they could name the Vice President or the Speaker of the House today. (Let alone know about the merits and detractions of any legislation under consideration.)
“When the leaders rig the elections to favor a minority in power, they are at war with representative democracy.” ~ Dubya
I agree. Unfortunately, at least in the case of gerrymandering, it is something that both parties are guilty of and have gone to great lengths to avoid crossing the line with it into illegalities. I don’t like it, but until we put forth specific legislation to eliminate it, it will continue. It will continue especially when the left gains control of congress once again, and then it will cease to be an issue for you… right?
By the way, Rhode Island was not represented because they CHOSE to not send representatives to the constitutional convention. George Washington had to threaten the state to even ratify the constitution. By the way, Connecticut and New Hampshire were also small states whose interests were supported by a bicameral congress insuring two senators per state along with the creation of the electoral college. I fully well acknowledge the evils of slavery and the influence it played in the writing of the Constitution with its 3/5ths clause. It is a black mark that was later amended. Pragmatically, that evil was allowed to continue at the time in order to form our union. Without that compromise, we would probably still be speaking British English instead of American English, and I hate spelling color and favor with a “u”.
Regardless, where true voter suppression, rigging of elections, and malfeasance of officials regarding vote counting (Snipes in Florida), all Americans should rise above party and stamp this out completely. Picture I.D. is not voter suppression. Making the obtaining of such I.D. exceptionally difficult should never be allowed either. I think we can both agree on these things.
Oh, and for the record, I am indeed a product of public education, but evidently that was back in the day when teachers were actually expected to be experts at their subjects. History, economics, and civics were taught and personal responsibility was demanded and enforced. If we broke the rules, Mommy and Daddy did not threaten to sue the principal. They whipped our butts and grounded us. Perhaps that is why my generation has a lot more folks willing to provide for themselves instead of insisting that they are victims of oppression and needing of the government to help them.
Finally, I checked the status of my old blog and found some 60 plus comments on the last post that contained a lot of the same bilge as every other post’s comments, hence my desire to make note of it. Oh, and by the way, I am deeply chagrined that Trump and the cowardly Republican congress did not make deep spending cuts and attempt to balance our budget. If they had though, I am sure both J.G. and Mr. Dubya would REALLY be screaming about the evil Republicans. Damned if they do… damned if they don’t.
Mr. Critter, I am not a religious fundamentalist, by the way. I am a Catholic. You know… the church that was actually the founders of the university system. The church who had priests that were pioneers in genetics, astronomy, and even posited the Big Bang Theory. I help new inquirers into the Catholic faith through the RCIA program. One of the things we tell them, and I always specifically tell them, is to always question. Always research. Always inquire. It is by such means that we find answers and hopefully deepen our own faith and trust in God. It is a theme that is commonplace in Catholicism, especially today.
DANG! The Russians evidently have hosed up my account simply because I didn’t vote for Trump. They are not attaching my moniker to my comments again.
Hey Dave, look at how many people are no longer unemployed and living on welfare between Trump and Obama. Besides, with the hole that Obama had helped to dig, of course there were a lot more gains to be made then when Trump came along.
December 7, 2018
I have said Trump is evil. Disagree if you like, but by all definitions he is. I have also said those who support Trump wittingly, or unwittingly, support evil. Note that I did not say supporting Trump is evil in itself. Supporting a racist wittingly, or unwittingly, is supporting racism. Supporting a bigot wittingly, or unwittingly, is supporting bigotry. Supporting a liar wittingly, or unwittingly, is supporting lies. Racism, bigotry, and lies are evil. Thus unwitting people often support evil. This is called logic.
How can merely noting that Trump and many of his followers are racists be hate? How can noting those who have authoritarian personalities be hate. Do none exist? How can calling out hate be hate? How can calling out racism be racism?
Can you tell me how this isn’t hate?
“Yep, it is Trump, conservatives, and the constitution that they fear, while twisting and projecting their hate and bile as being products of their enemies. ..They are the true perpetrators of this cold civil war... He decries hate while spewing nothing but hate. .. the hateful racist crap Mr. Dubya continues to spew... “
Wow. THAT is what an authoritarian personality would say, whether from hate, anger, resentment, or ignorance. He would also demonstrate my point, “It is faith based, but authoritarian to the degree they accept what their leaders say it is.”
Trump is an authoritarian leader. Disagree if you like, but he is. He has many authoritarian followers and supporters who exhibit this kind of conformity of belief.
Exhibit A: I have no problem with labeling them as would-be “invaders”.
Dear Leader has insisted on calling asylum seekers invaders.
Exhibit B: Truly if there was any collusion with Russia, it was done by Hillary when she was Secretary of State, and her campaign in 2016.
Dear Leader has insisted on this false equivalence, projection, and deflection too.(Donations to a charity foundation are not personal emoluments like Trump businesses raking in money from Saudis and Russians and other foreign powers.)
Exhibit C: “The founders NEVER equated democracy with mob rule. This is a far Right con-servative propaganda lie.” ~ Dubya
Instead of citing where the founders equated fair elections won by the most votes with mob rule, we get, “So is this “lie” born out of Dubya’s ignorance or perhaps out of a leftist agenda… or both?”
Not helpful at all.
Let me help. The founders NEVER said elections that require the winner to have more votes than the opponent is mob rule. They are called fair elections. Fair elections are vital to representative democracy and the founders’ ideal of consent of the governed.
Fair elections represent the democracy progressives demand. Conservatives, authoritarians, tyrants, dictators, and the Party of Trump oppose them. Is this clear enough?
And yes, suppressing voters’ rights to fair elections is evil. It is the tactic of authoritarian tyranny.
Check out the massive Republican election fraud in North Carolina. It is evil. Or ignore it and blame progressives for being hateful.
As for the public being more informed today, you cannot seriously say that with a straight face.
The point was modern citizens have access to information the founders never foresaw. Obviously they can be fools and only trust FOX(R), Trump’s media sycophants and employment pool.
No facts were offered to indicate how “Dubya’s inaccurate revisionist history” was either inaccurate or revisionist. Sadly an all too familiar pattern.
Sorry, it is accurate that slave states demanded and benefited from the electoral college. Why would someone be so adamant to deflect from this?
Here it is again, complete with a founder who DIDN’T think a direct election of a president was “mob rule”! Shocking, amirite?
Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct national election of the president. But the savvy Virginian James Madison responded that such a system would prove unacceptable to the South: “The right of suffrage was much more diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes.” In other words, in a direct election system, the North would outnumber the South, whose many slaves (more than half a million in all) of course could not vote. But the Electoral College—a prototype of which Madison proposed in this same speech—instead let each southern state count its slaves, albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing its share of the overall count.
No historian would say this is “inaccurate revisionist history”.
But thanks for all the false accusations, projection, and deflections. All Trumpian/authoritarian tactics of discourse, coincidentally.
“hateful racist crap Mr. Dubya continues to spew”?
I take it you agree with your sidekick that Farrakhan is my buddy? Once again, evidence behind the accusation remains a mystery. I repeat. False accusation is another common tactic of Trumpian/authoritarian discourse.
I feel safe in predicting there will be no rational evidence based rebuttal to this. More accusations will be far more likely if an authoritarian tendency continues to dominate your discourse.
Payroll growth scorecard:
Obama’s last 23 months vs Trump’s first 23 months
Total hired: 4,850,000 vs. 4,460,000
Average monthly gain: 211.000 vs.194,000
Obama’s last 23 months vs Trump’s first 23 months
Total hired: 4,850,000 vs. 4,460,000
Average monthly gain: 211.000 vs.194,000
Is this the “big hole” you say the Black Guy “helped to dig” in Bush's robust economic miracle boom of 2008? ;-)
Say, did you check out the real news today? Trump is a criminal. So are his goons. He and his "weak" lawyer violated election laws. More crimes will be exposed soon. He is evil.
But Hillary!! Emails!! Lock her up!
As TB3 already offered about the first round: Ouch again! Round 2 goes unanimously to the gentleman from Michigan.
To our Utah host, your debate skills are weak and unconvincing. If you hope to come out of this with any credibility at all, I suggest the use of more logic and reason; less emotional and unsupported opinions.
Thanks to my dear readers for their patience and perseverance in making it through this epic battle of words for the soul of America. I hope you may have found some mild entertainment value, or even some use for the points made and perspectives shared.
If nothing else, we have a clearer picture of Contrarious Con-servativism, and for that, I am am indebted to Mr. Paine, and grateful for his efforts to support his misguided and ill-informed ideology.
And I want to add, despite his accusations, I harbor no hate for him, or any of his tribe. I hate their lies. I hate their hate. I hate their willful ignorance. I hate their closed-minded and false certainty of what progressives think. And I hate their willful destruction of the last vestiges of American democracy and consent of the governed.
While the far Right can never understand this, I hate the darkness of their ideology because I love my country and its people.
You're arguing facts vs feels, Dave. Good on you for keep on keeping on, but like you say. It's an ideology. For some it's their identity. Those are hard things to argue against. Just keep fact checking and pointing out the hypocracy. Maybe one day these people will open their eyes and realize how wrong they are about a lot of things. Then they can come to terms that the people they argued against won't think less of them for realizing their error.
Certain people have such fragile egos and temperments that if they acknowledge that they are wrong, they will crumble. That's why they use such terrible language when arguing with their fellow Americans. It keeps them from having to challenge their own thoughts and having their FeeFees hurt with the knowledge that, yes, you guys have been the assholes all along.
It'll take a misstep from one of their own to start crumbling their defenses and start to question their side. However, in "Age of Trump", who the heck knows what that misstep could possibly be? It's not the misogyny, racist dog whistling, lieing, filthy language, victim complex, anti-Christian attitude, the Russian problem or lack of empathy that's been able to do it thus far. There's got to be a straw, at some point, that breaks the camel's back. I mean... there's only so much noise you can block out by plugging your ears and clenching your eyes, right?
No? Can we do it 'till 2020? LA LA LA LA LA.
What's that? Do you mean to suggest conservative ideology is more a basket case of emotions than a "marketplace of ideas"? ;-)
Of course it is. That reveals the real snowflakes, doesn't it?
In fact, their basket of emotions is much closer to a cult than honest discourse through fact and reason. It takes a powerful and relentless program of brainwashing to turn the common man against fair elections, the public good, safety nets, environmental protection, consent of the governed, and our constitutional general welfare and regulation of commerce. This is why they will not open their minds to anything outsiders say. We are the enemy to them. We are commies. We are National Socialists. And hell, yeah, that is dangerous when such a movement gains so much power with an authoritarian leader, a dominant political party, and a vast propaganda network.
Convincing them of reality is futile, but is vital to our freedom and democracy that we never shrug off their extremist ideology with a pass.
Their indoctrinated hostility to journalism and the press, educators and academia, and their highly partisan suspicion and denial of science suggest nothing will get through their cult bubble.
The two Prime Tenets of their cult are clear. "Conservatism cannot fail. It can only be failed." And, "It's OK if you are a Republican".
IF there were to be a "last straw", it will be the fault of liberals. It always has, and always will be to them.
Our only hope for survival and prosperity as a species lies in our choosing decency over cruelty, and evolution over extinction. This means eventually breeding xenophobia, bigotry, racism, and reverence of wealth out of existence. It also means educating new generations on the historical environmental and human disasters that resulted from the toxic ideology.
This is our hope...and their fear.
"While the far Right can never understand this, I hate the darkness of their ideology because I love my country and its people." ~~ Dave Dubya
I'm not sure what 2019 will bring, but it's a sure bet it'll be a turbulent and topsy-turvy year. Things are going to happen, and the dominos are going to keep falling - and falling even more quickly. It can't be said, with any modicum of certainty, that the last domino to fall will be Donald Trump.
TB3 spoke of a misstep, by their own, potentially breaking Trumpist defenses - but reality quickly checked this hope. In this age of Trumpist idealogy, those normally-viewed missteps which used to check off-the-rails behavior, only embolden Trump's base, and in turn embolden him.
It seems traditional virtues have been slain, and replaced, by Trump's inherent evilness. The more outrageous his claims, the more verbous his behavior, the greater his influence and strength.
Trump claimed he could shoot and kill someone on a New York avenue and he'd still retain his support. After two years of his continuous nonstop lies, I'm beginning to believe this.
The darkness of Trumpist ideology can do nothing but bring disastrous results. Borrowing from an old axiom, Donald Trump is an accident waiting to happen. As Tom Degan has repeatedly said, this can only end badly.
It seems 2020 is a million light-years away. Even calculating in dog-years, it's way too far away.
TP is a faith-based conservative. No facts required!
As we know, for all intents and purposes, con-servatism is a faith-based, no-facts-required cult. They would, and have, sided with Medieval doctors and theologians over a Newton, Einstein, or Hawking.
They are today's authoritarian equivalent of the flat-earthers and witch burners of yore.
No wonder they're making America so "great" again, as in greedy, cruel, and ignorant.
Bless their over-active enlarged amygdalas. It's an authoritarian, pathological, psychological disorder. It is humanity's great flaw that leads to ignorance, resentment, anger, hate, brutality, torture, and war.
Their embrace of the mindless hateful rhetoric like "America-hating commie libs", the "Kenyan Marxist", "Lock her up!" and the "sons of bitches" taking a knee tells us exactly who and what they are.
"Very fine people", indeed.
As I was saying, for them to be happy, someone must suffer. Not only do they hate government employees, forcing them to lose their paychecks this holiday season, Trump decides they shall get no raises next year either.
Punishment for the sake of punishment. They are evil. Period.
"...Trump decides [federal government workers] shall get no raises next year either." ~~ Dave Dubya
Of course, though, Trump continues to suck up to the military-industrial-complex. The military, being today's third-rail of untouchables, will get its scheduled raises.
Our civil servants will not get the same pass.
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