Friday, March 29, 2024

Common Ground


I’m happy our old radicalized far Right, Trump-supporting friend Darrell is preaching again. I do value his perspective in order to better understand the radical Right Trumpist mentality.

In his post, “The Unbridgeable Divide Between Left and Right”, he reasonably asks, “How does one find common ground when many of the points of contention are diametrically opposed and argued so vehemently?”

I can think of one or two reasons he would not want to consider, so I’d like to address them here.

A good start to finding common ground would be to accept verifiable facts, and not dismiss any journalism as “fake” if it doesn’t conform to, and support, Trump’s “alternative facts”, lies and propaganda.

If one’s grasp of reality relies on the Holy Infallible Word of Donald Trump, common ground is automatically denied. THAT is the primary deal-breaker.

And it also answers these questions:

How is it possible to bridge the divide…

…Between those who BELIEVE every word from Trump as gospel, and those who KNOW he’s a narcissistic, compulsive, serial LIAR?

…Between those who compromise, and those who REFUSE to compromise?

…Between those who were willing to pass border protection that included over a thousand new officers and additional fentanyl detection devices, and those who killed it on orders from ONE man who WANTS a border crisis to base his campaign on so he can be above the law and stay out of prison?

…Between those who would vote for Trump even if he is a convicted criminal and those who support equal justice under law?

…Between those who support an authoritarian who calls his opposition “vermin” and “communists” and those who know the history of the same hate rhetoric from 1930’s Germany?

…Between those who support a man who sent an angry and violent mob to the Capitol, REFUSED to call them off,  and PRAISED his thugs (“hostages”) after watching them desecrate our Capitol, terrorized Congress, and beat cops bloody attempting to steal the election, and those who see this as gross negligence, a crime, and a betrayal of our republic that terminated our history of peaceful transfer of power?

…Between those who want to IMPOSE their religious beliefs against the will of MOST Americans, and those who understand our republic is NOT based on, or favors, any religion?

…Between those who accuse a Democrat of trying to “overthrow the elected prime minister of Israel” (by calling for an election, of all the “tyranny”,) and those who KNOW Israel is sick of their leader who is charged with corruption, having the support of only 19% of the Israeli people?

…Between the intolerant bigots who howl against drag queens and those who know drag is theatre, not indoctrination, and that Reagan and Giuliani have done it, and those who KNOW far more clergy abuse children than drag queens ever did?

…Between those who are intolerant of the LGBTQ community and won’t mind their own business, and people exercising their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

…Between those who think the covid vaccination is more dangerous than covid, and those who KNOW it has SAVED far more lives?   

…Between those who give Trump more credit for lowering Black unemployment than the Black president actually did?

(Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers: Aug. 2011 the Bush Recession produced black unemployment rate 16.7% January 2017, the Black unemployment rate was at 7.8 percent. Under Obama the Black unemployment rate dropped 8.9%. Trump crowed about a record low 5.4% rate, a 2.4% drop from what Obama left him. Trump left Biden a Black unemployment rate of 6.9% rate in January 2021.)

…Between those like Darrell who ignore Trump's racist history and birtherism and say, “the black president did more to destroy race relations and divide the nation than any other politician in recent memory”, and those who KNOW racism has been deeply rooted in American white culture for CENTURIES? They can’t imagine the possibility that hostile reactions to the black president could reveal the racism, so they blame the black guy instead of the real racists.

In a June 2017 poll by the Pew Research Center, nearly 9 in 10 blacks — 88 percent — said the nation needed to continue making changes for blacks to have equal rights with whites. For whites, that number was substantially lower: 53 percent. About 51 percent of blacks said Obama had made progress toward improving race relations, compared with 28 percent of whites. The poll also found 32 percent of whites blamed Obama for making race relations worse, compared with 5 percent for blacks.

Those black voices fall on deaf ears among Trump supporters. Instead, they wrap themselves in a single MLK quote on judging by character, and FALSLEY accuse liberals of disagreeing with the man. What they DON'T want to hear is what happened to the black women election workers Giuliani and Trump LIED about, falsely accusing them of election fraud. Shaye Moss and Ruby Freeman were terrorized by DEATH THREATS from Trumpists who BELIEVED the racist LIES Trump and Republicans spread about them. 

…Between those who believe Trump is an honest man who lost (by massive fraud that he could NOT prove), and the majority who accept the VERIFIABLE FACT Biden won a fair election according to ALL counts, recounts, certifications, audits, Trump’s AG and DOJ, Trump’s White House Counsel, Trump’s Homeland Security, and 60 courts?



81,283,501 Popular votes

306 Electoral Votes



74,223,975 Popular votes

232 Electoral Votes

Finally, let’s examine one more foul absurdity that Darrell advances.

“Ironically the only thing that remains the same is that it was the Democratic Party that opposed freedom then,(The Civil War) and it is the Democratic Party that opposes freedom today.”

This is what happens when someone ignores the fact that today’s Klan, Neo-Nazis, Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and every other racist white nationalist is a Trump supporter.

Since Trump took power, no one lost more freedom than women. Republicans wouldn’t allow a raped ten-year-old to abort a rapist’s fetus. They would FORCE a woman to DIE from an ectopic pregnancy. Republicans DENY women the FREEDOM to NOT FOLLOW REPUBLICANS’ RELIGION. 

Trump’s party is still gerrymandering Blacks out of fair representation, and STILL attempting to empower their legislators to OVERTURN the will of the voters. Arizona Republican state Sen. Anthony Kern was one of the fake electors in 2020. Kern recently proposed legislation that would give the state legislature the authority to override the popular vote.

Trump criminally tried to steal an election and CANCEL the votes of 81 MILLION Americans. The evidence is clearly shown in the indictments, that Trump’s true believers REFUSE to even read.

And ONLY white Trump supporters STILL wave the Confederate flag!

This brings us to the answer to Darrell’s question.

Common ground can only be found when enough Republicans and conservatives acknowledge the FACT that Trump is a grifter, con man, cheater, liar, sociopath, and criminal.

He won’t like it, or even consider it, but this answers Darrell’s question.


Dave Dubya said...

There’s no cure for willful blindness. I’ll note Darrell’s vicious LIE about Democratic women of color, with a couple other items from the comment thread at his blog:

Oh, and I see a LOT of Democrats admiring the terrorists of Hamas, including Omar, Tlaib, and the rest of the squad members sitting in federal offices. Biden’s attempt to call a cease fire so that Israel cannot finish eradicating these terrorist vermin and freeing their hostages is a prime example of those on the left supporting Hamas.

He doesn’t care that MOST of the world wants a ceasefire. To him it means “supporting Hamas”, instead of calling for ending the massive death toll of innocents and children. Darrell also BELIEVES ”Leftists, aka Democrats, HATE America”. Our guardian of the Truths of Donald Trump also BELIEVES he has a clear-eyed opinion on my “falsehoods” that he somehow can never address with accurate information to disprove my points.

He (Dave Dubya) has repeatedly tried to goad me back into debate with him on other sites, but I figure that those that are truly interested in the truth will read my own words and be able to see who is telling falsehoods.

Oh, and Trump is anything but a honest man. He is a poor excuse for a presidential candidate. The problem is that the one we currently have in office has proven to be even more dishonest, corrupt, and foolish. In fact I voted for the constitution party candidate when Trump first ran.

"Oh, and Trump is anything but a honest man", but he's been telling nothing but the truth about the election ever since BEFORE it was held and AFTER the abundantly clear evidence he LOST?

Really? Can this claim be made with a straight face?

Then I am correct.

There is an answer to your question, Darrell.

But those who BELIEVE Trump told nothing but the truth before, during and after the election cannot even consider it.

Or does he lie about everything BUT the election? How convenient is that?

Biden won a fair election according to ALL counts, recounts, certifications, audits, Trump’s AG and DOJ, Trump’s White House Counsel, Trump’s Homeland Security, and 60 courts.

This evidence stands. NONE of Trump's so-called proof does. None.

But "Honest Don" will tell you no lie...

And that is PRECISELY why the Trumpist will REFUSE the "common ground" of reality itself.

And this willful BELIEF in Trump is why they are ripping our country apart and shredding democracy.

BELIEF in Trump is support for his thugs and advisors like Steve Bannon saying they will jail “demonic” Democrats if Trump wins a second term, and Mike Davis saying, “I’m going to be Trump’s viceroy of D.C. because I don’t like democracy.”

YES. This rightly HORRIFIES every old fashioned pro-democracy anti-tyranny American. It is an affront to decency, democracy, and our Constitution.

Dare to think seriously about that. Please, for the sake of all that is true, just, and sane in this world.

Or keep BELEIVING in Trump's damn lies. It's the easiest path and requires no application of reason or examination of facts. Just BELIEVE.

One day he will be gone, but your dishonor will remain. Voting for a third party presidential candidate would be more honorable than supporting Trump's crime spree and war on democracy. Consider it an off-ramp from the cult-like madness that takes Trump at his word over all verifiable evidence and reality.

But sadly, true believers will probably go to the grave as true believers. And with that belief they will hate, blame, and scorn those who see the Big Lie that they, for some reason, MUST BELEIEVE as gospel.

Dave Dubya said...

Troll responses like, "Looks like Dave is afraid to publish responses he disagrees with? How do we know if your questions have been answered if you won't publish them?" won't be accepted.

They fail to address the topic and are directed at me personally.

An acceptable response can be "I disagree. We can find common ground when you BELIEVE Trump's word is gospel." Or something like, "I disagree. Common ground can be found in _____."

Nothing of this sort is expected, of course. They have to make it about attacking me. It's always been about the accusations, hate and lies with them.

Dave Dubya said...

Darrell doesn't like me, clearly. He responded at his blog. but indicated I am not welcome to discuss anything with him.

So let's examine his response to my comment above here.

Darrell’s Response Part One:
[With my remarks in brackets]

Against my better judgement, I am going to briefly respond to you, Dave, even though I have repeatedly asked you to leave my site. I guess comment moderation may have to make a reappearance on my site.

So, basically your answer is that until conservatives stop supporting Trump, this gap can never be crossed. Got it. We must think and believe like the hate-America, pro-child-mutilation, and abortion-on-demand-up-until-birth leftists do or we will remain divided.

[That wasn’t my answer at all. It was specific about BELIEVING Trump’s Big Lie. Darrell’s willfully ignorant lies and insulting words can only convey a deep fear and hatred he feels for Trump’s opposition. Once again, the radical mind finds it difficult to simply quote the actual words of those they need to dispute. This is almost always their style of discourse. They TELL you what you’re saying and attack their strawman. They blame, accuse and attack without evidence. This is the classic authoritarian personality.]

Well, speaking for myself, I will side with what is morally right and God teaches and take my chances there rather than side with the worldly Marxists on the left. THAT is what is truly ripping our nation apart. In a generation we have gone from “We just want to be able to marry who we love,” to nowadays when the pro-LGBTQIAMNLOP mafia intimidates people in the street with chants of “We are coming for your children!” Why do you think it is a right to try and sexualize our children? That is sick and perverse on so many levels.

[More fear. What can be more frightening than, “We are coming for your children!”? Who says that, anyway? All it takes is one clip of one person and millions of bigots freak out. I’ll tell what is more frightening and more real. School shootings. But we don’t hear much concern about that from the radical Right, do we? We hear them howling about the drag queens who don’t abuse children, but NEVER a peep about the rampant abuse of children by clergy and youth pastors... And once again the radical Right patented all-purpose “commie card” gets played. Hitler and his Nazis perfected the propaganda technique of smearing any opponent as a communist. It’s their go-to hate term. I tried a number of times to ask them to quote any of my words that indicate I am a communist. The same for any quote they dispute. You can guess the response. None of my words were cited and more false framing and baseless accusations would ensue.]

Trump is corrupt according to the left, and in many aspects he is, but he has not taken bribes from our enemies, intentionally undermined our allies (especially those fighting for their very survival in the Middle East), emboldened our enemies of Iran and China, devastated the poorest among us with the inflation and asinine governmental green polices, and brought great instability to the world’s peace. And that is in addition to the moral and cognitive degradation with which Biden is terminally afflicted.

[This is Darrell drinking Trump’s koolade again. It is futile to inform him of Trump’s lies, bullying, corruption, greed, nepotism, and skimming our tax dollars and foreign money at his golf courses and hotels. It is futile to quote the Mueller Report AND bipartisan Senate committee that determined Russia interfered and Trump welcomed it in 2016. It is futile to quote Trump’s praise for Putin and his attacks on NATO. He would be either oblivious or dismissive of Trump telling our NATO allies, “No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them (Russia) to do whatever the hell they want.” This would be violating the treaty and betrayal of allies. Trumpists are all good with that.]

JoeBama "Truth 101" Kelly said...

I do appreciate you making some attempt to deal with the Darrells of the world but sadly, after half my life trying to find a way to get them to see facts, anything I ever said was trumped by one of the puppet masters of the right telling them the crap they wanted to hear. That they are so willing to believe Trump is their friend is truly a scary thought. Trump hates them. He calls them stupid and doesn't even try to hide his contempt. It never ends well for those who enter his universe. Ask Rudy and all the disbarred lawyers about that. And the deluded fools in jail for their part in the 1/6 insurrection. This is mostly why when addressing these kooks I pretty much go with insulting them. I'm with Thomas Jefferson on this. Ridiculing them is all their worth.

Dave Dubya said...

Thanks, Joe.

Yeah, reasoning with over-emotional, unreasonable, reactionary authoritarian personalities is futile.

Even good faith, rational conservatives are despised and scorned as "RINOs" by Trump's true believers. Darrell invokes conservatives in general as the real Trump supporters, but we know otherwise. Good faith rational conservatives are not radicals and enemies of truth and democracy who surrender their minds and conscience to Trump. He did just that.

He deeply resents me and wishes not to hear from me, so I left him with just a few final pertinent points for him to ignore.

You put words in my mouth when you said, ”So, basically your answer is that until conservatives stop supporting Trump, this gap can never be crossed. Got it. We must think and believe like the hate-America, pro-child-mutilation, and abortion-on-demand-up-until-birth leftists do or we will remain divided.”

Wow. What a cruel and hateful insult. Disagreeing with Trumpists now means we are “the hate-America, pro-child-mutilation, and abortion-on-demand-up-until-birth leftists”. This is fascist level BS and hate.

And that wasn’t my answer at all. It was specific about BELIEVING Trump’s Big Lie. I get it. You’re avoiding defending the indefensible. I can’t expect you to show the integrity to quote MY words to dispute or to support your hateful accusations. And I’m sick of radical Right Trumpists hatefully and falsely calling those who KNOW he’s a liar and a criminal “Marxists”. Before you accuse me, QUOTE MY WORDS, or please stuff it.

The rest of my response to your dishonest and hate-filled comment is at my blog, where EVERYONE is welcome to read it and address it.

JoeBama "Truth 101" Kelly said...

The Trumpists are not classic conservatives. They have no clue about fiscal or personal responsibility. They have no clue about liberty. What they are is a collection of single issue, close minded fools. The evangelical crowd has no use for anyone that doesn't blindly follow whatever their pastor of the week preaches. They have a new antiChrist every week. The bigots and homophobes only care that anyone who is "different" be scorned and arrested. The fact is they claim to be against government but I live in a deep red county and close to half the kids in our schools qualify for free lunches. if that program were eliminated they would go apeshit but vote republican anyway. We have a big percentage of our residents over 65. I know many of them that wouldn't be alive were it not for Medicare and Medicaid. Many would be homeless or if lucky, in public housing were it not for Social Security. But the priest says it's a sin to vote Democrat so they forget all that other stuff that helps them live with dignity. I don't even want to get started on the gun crowd.

Dave Dubya said...

They epitomize the term "disconnect".

They are willfully deluded by whatever lies that make them FEEL good, or FEEL anger and hate for those of us who can seek and absorb facts and rationally process them.

The authoritarian personality has a characteristic over-active and enlarged primitive amygdala, the brain's fear/fight/flight center. This is why they readily embrace whatever triggers their anger, fear and hate.

Organized institutional Western religion, the Abrahamic religions, have always been about instilling fear and unquestioning belief as a means of control and distraction from the cruelties and injustice committed by leaders. The Crusades, Inquisition, witch trials, racism, slavery, the Holocaust, denial of reproductive freedom, Israeli apartheid, brutality, and land theft, and now the Trump Bible are all part of their heritage. They are the Judeo-Christian version of Islamic Jihad, suppression of women's rights, and terrorism.

The madness is evidenced by the Gaza ethnic cleansing. And despite all the death, Hamas is still supported by the victims of Israeli savagery. Where else can they turn? More madness, death and destruction are inevitable. And hell yes, BOTH sides are to blame, but just one side has more blood of innocents on their hands. Those who point out this reality will be called "antisemitic" by MAGAts and other supporters of the Israeli radical Right.

Dave Dubya said...

Darrell's had enough of me.

Regarding Dave, I have tried for years to debate with him in good faith. He would go through phases where he would be decent and stay on point but there were far too many times when he would play the bully with ad hominem attacks and epithets towards others with whom he disagreed. There was even a left-wing gentlemen named Jerry whom I rather liked that used to comment on my blog that ran afoul of Dave for disagreeing with him on some point.

With Mr. Dubya, you either agree with him or you are a Trumpist authoritarian racist. I am all for a healthy debate of ideas and perspectives and welcome that. Unfortunately, some people want to devolve debate into a junior high school mean girls club. Those people can cite their nonsense and be bullies on their own platforms.

Since Mr. Dubya has no respect for anyone other than himself and those sycophants that are in lock-step with him, I guess I have to turn comment moderation on again. Dave, thanks again for your nonsense accordingly. I guess you can complain about me to your fellow travelers on your own blog. All future comments of yours will be deleted to the spam folder where they belong. I should have known better than to allow your nonsense to resume again under a new name.

Oh, and by the way, when I called you a communist, it wasn’t necessarily meant as a pejorative but rather more as a descriptive term. You support many of the very tenets of the communist creed according to what you have written in the past that are antithetical to America, its values, and its Constitution. So while you see that is retaliatory name-calling, I meant it only as classifier of your stated beliefs in big-government, anti-capitalism, anti-faith, and anti-family rhetoric. Regardless, I wish you well with your endeavors.
Darrell, did you see Dumbya's latest post? He really has a hard on for you. I was going to comment on his site and correct some of his BS but figured that asshat really wasn't worth the trouble.
Darrell disapproves of name-calling? LOL!
(Note the perpetual absence of any of my words that reflect "Communist" Dave's ideology.)

Their hypocrisy and hate are bottomless.

Dave Miller said...

Dave, it's tough to get to common ground when we can't even agree on a framework.

One side says up, the other says down. One says in, the other says out. And on and on it goes.

One side asks a question, the other refuses to answer. One side demands a yes or no answer, the other demands nuance.

One side tries to deal in objective fact, the other spouts opinions culled from questionable news sources.

So what do we do? I feel like we need to go back to geometry and use postulates, theorems and proofs as our standard.

Dave Dubya said...

Yeah, Dave.
The common ground they can never acknowledge is called reality by the rest of the world.

This is why I will keep telling them, "Trump lost. Trump lied. And Trump criminally tried to overturn and steal the 2020 election".

And that's the reality their cult leader won't allow them to see, so they take their Mendacious Malevolent Messiah's words as gospel.

We may as well try educating or debating turnips.

Dave Miller said...

Dave... all true here on Earth 2.0...

Dave Dubya said...

Darrell's latest diatribe and false framing of myself and others is in his latest post. “Mr. Leftist Please, Tell Me What I am Thinking,

My reaction:
[Besides knowing YOU think I’m a leftist, pro-Hamas commie who hates America, murders children, loves black criminals, welcomes Mexican killers and rapists, wants to exterminate Jews, and take away your guns and freedom?]

He whines, "Indeed, I have been called an authoritarian, racist, homophobe, Trump-supporter, and neo-Nazi for years".

Never mind what he has called me. The fact is I did call him an authoritarian Trump supporter, because, well, that's what he is. His radical Right victim mentality misconstrued my noting the FACT that racists, homophobes, and neo-Nazis AGREE with him on many of his false accusations and demonization as calling HIM one.

I would tell him that neo-Nazis would agree with his accusation that I'm a "leftist commie who hates America". His reaction amounted to, "Waah! Evil Dave said I'm a NAZI!" You get the gist of it.

His classic accusation that I am a "leftist who hates America" is just one specific case. This applies to nearly every Democrat in Darrell's deluded thinking. If we oppose Trump the insurrectionist criminal liar, we hate America is his default delusion.

Darrell wondered, “I wish I had a solution to bridge this divide, but like those flipping me off on the other side of the chasm, I am not willing to compromise on these core values. And neither are they. So, what happens from here?”

My suggestion for finding common ground was summarily rejected, of course. It compromised Darrell’s core value of BELIEVING every election LIE from Donald Trump. Darrell would never think of finding common ground with RINO’s and commies who think Trump lost the election, lied about the election, and criminally tried to STEAL the election. Common ground can only be found when enough Republicans and conservatives acknowledge the FACT that Trump is a grifter, con man, cheater, liar, sociopath, and criminal.

He won’t like it, or even consider it, but this answers Darrell’s question.

I'll cite a couple more items from Darrell’s “partial list of some of the greatest arguments that divide our nation” framed as negatively and inaccurately as possible.

He displayed the typical white nationalist hate and blame for the Black president as he praised the criminal who PRAISED thugs for terrorizing Congress and beating cops bloody to overturn the election he LOST.

“Ironically our first black president did more to destroy race relations and divide the nation than any other politician in recent memory.”
[White nationalist would be the term to describe a conservative white guy who blames the Black president for destroying race relations and dividing the nation.]

Praise for Trump: “The absolute hate and venom spewed at the man who actually brought far greater prosperity to most Americans (especially those of color), energy independence, and stability and greater prospects for lasting peace in the world was demonized by teeth-gnashing leftists.” [Darrell can’t tell if Trump spews hate and venom. Really. Even Forbes says the US is energy independent. US crude oil production is higher than 2020 under Trump. Trump encouraged lasting peace by saying Putin was a genius for annexing Crimean and invading Eastern Ukraine. He also invited Russia to do “whatever the hell they want” to a NATO ally if they don’t pay enough money.]

You can't share facts with a fanatic or reason with a cultist who BELIEVES Trump's election lies. Darrell proves it.

Anonymous said...

Who is Darrell? What is the name of his blog?

Dave Dubya said...

Darrell is a fellow blogger who went from being a relatively grounded conservative to a true believer in Trump's election lies. He's following Trump's example in calling those who disagree with him and who want to see him held accountable for his crimes "communists".

Unabashedly American

If you visit his blog, please extend my greetings and gratitude for showing us how good people can be radicalized by Trump's lies.

I can't because he banned me for telling the truth about Trump and those who believe in his lies as if they were gospel.

Just the Facts! said...

"debate with him in good faith"

Bull Shit

Dave Dubya said...

So it's asking too much for a rational response from you?

We already knew that.