Saturday, January 12, 2019

The Return Of Contrarious Con-servatism: The Inevitable Conclusion


Our final installment of the Return Of Contrarious Con-servatism continues from Rex’s politely worded question and my fact-based answer.

Well, that Polite Interlude went as expected. I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised by the response to our con-servative correspondent’s question.

After all, in his very first communication to me, he called me, "Little Davey",  a dick-head.  That touch of inter-personal charm alone tells us the chances of honest dialogue are nil.

Rex’s response, or retaliation, to the facts in answer to his question was, "Same old tired accusations and rhetoric".  This is the authoritarian tactic of projection, of course.

We recall this famous projection, “No puppet! No puppet! YOU”RE the puppet!”

Yeah, in their world facts are “rhetoric” and as demonstrated, their opinions are seen as facts.

Our studies of Con-servatism have shown Dismissal and Denial of fact and reason are common authoritarian tactics of discourse.

What we are doing here is proving the inevitable conclusion that there can be no good faith communication with these radical far Right ideologues.

As I have stated, we may as well be trying to tell a Moonie that their Republican cult leader is not Jesus. It’s the same as telling the Cult of Con-servatism that Republican Jesus didn’t really send Trump to save America.

As with all cults, emotion trumps reason, and beliefs trump facts. 

~~~~~~~
Rex:

Dave, regarding your question about Rashida, here is some help: (Link to a far Right Federalist opinion.)

As for playing my playing the race card, I am glad you picked up on that, Dave. Too bad you missed the point. It is okay for you and Jeff Davis to do it but you get all but-hurt if anyone from the right does it. I already admitted that Trump is a racist punk, so what’s your point? Woodrow Wilson was horribly racist, but to many on the left he was a wonderful progressive president that did “great” things in warping our nation. Racism is evil regardless of who does it. Calling someone a racist for political points is also evil.

And yes Dave, many of you on the left don’t want a wall because it is “racist”. That is bullshit. If the Canadian government was as corrupt as Mexico’s and people were fleeing into the U.S. across the northern border and bringing drugs, human trafficking etc. with them, then we would want a wall to keep out the lily white Canadians too. Many leftists simply want to expand the welfare state and have a path to citizenship for the southern illegals so that they can expand their power base. It isn’t out of benevolence that they do this but out of cynical partisanship. They use the cry of “racism” to bludgeon anyone that dares speak about limiting the flow of ILLEGAL immigration from the south. They use PC tactics in other words.

“Providing for the general welfare” does not mean what you and the left thinks it means. The constitution as our wonderful former president Obama stated, is a charter of negative liberties, as far as the government is concerned. It is interesting how the left sees the restrictions on government as negative liberties instead of seeing that it does this to ensure positive liberties for us little people out here in America. The federal government was ONLY authorized to do those very few specific things outlined in the constitution. All other duties and responsibilities are left to the states and the people. Your general welfare clause has been perverted to mean that the feds can now do anything the left wants regardless of whether it exceeds the limitations placed on the government in the constitution. I don’t expect you to understand, let alone agree with me.

Yeah, I read your “conservative” article. Nice of you to tell me what I think, particularly (based on your fictional novella) you got nearly every single point wrong. Nice propaganda though. Maybe you could sell that fish wrapper to the Daily Kooks. My assumptions about what the left thinks is based on what they say and more importantly what they are doing. Some few idiots on the right fringes do stupid shit and you think that comprises the whole ideology. Must be the fear in your amygdala kicking in there, Skippy.

Also, try reading the New Testament instead of citing old Jewish law. Christ came along and became the fulfillment of the law in his teachings. Nice try though. Oh, and abusing religion in old Sam Clemmon’s quotes suggests that you think you are far more moral than those that believe and try to live by something greater than themselves… and no… I don’t mean your federal government. Might want to tell Kamala Harris and some of your Democrat reps that whole thing about the religious test being in the constitution, by the way. That idiot keeps wanting to deny seats on the bench to people just because they are Catholic.

It is a damned shame the Democrats insist on hurting people because they refuse to secure the border. Their hate of Trump far outweighs doing the right thing for the nation and their constituents.

==
Dave Dubya:

Rex,

I appreciate your thoughtful offering of the link. I do. It helps me see who formed your opinion.

“Tlaib’s endorsement of a “one-state solution” to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and comments supporting the left-wing boycott, divestment, sanctions (BDS) movement.”

And this, according to the far Right Federalist, means she is “anti-Semitic”. He decided they are all anti-Semitic because he quotes a Palestinian-American’s opinion. 

That’s what you got? A Federalist opinion intended to fuel anger? How emotion-based can you get? Very con-servative. ( The Federalist published an opinion piece defending Roy Moore’s dating of teenagers while he was in his 30s and arguing that such behavior was “not without some merit if one wants to raise a large family.”)

This is a common tactic of the far Right. They love to accuse those who disagree with the Israeli Right and their treatment of Palestinians as being “anti-Semitic”. Never mind some of us are Jews and most of us have Jewish friends.

We get a lot of broad accusations unsupported by factual evidence. The word of a conservative is all it takes for them to absorb as absolute truth. Look at their Leader for God’s sake!

Never mind. What good will real examples do in the face of Right wing, ideologically based opinion?

And speaking of missing the point, there you go again with the IOKIAR bit.

"I already admitted that Trump is a racist punk, so what’s your point?"

My point was it’s OK for you to say that, but not for anti-Trumpists.

“Calling someone a racist for political points is also evil”

We get that a lot. WE”RE the evil racists for calling out Trump’s racist birtherism.

But I DO thank you for agreeing that Trump is an evil racist.

No wonder you have a deep emotional need for false equivalence and to project that unto liberals.

”...many of you on the left don’t want a wall because it is 'racist'.”

Thanks for telling us what we think again. And no. Most agree it is wasteful and unnecessary to build a wall across the entire border. We have walls already, so this is really a dispute over degree. What you prefer, of course, is to accuse liberals of wanting unsecure borders so we get more voters. Thanks, Rush and FOX(R) for telling us what we think.

Do you NOT understand that is Right wing propaganda? Obviously you do not. Is any conservative opinion a fact to you?

Another example:

"They use the cry of “racism” to bludgeon anyone that dares speak about limiting the flow of ILLEGAL immigration from the south.”

No evidence to support the accusation. Again, opinion is fact.

“ 'Providing for the general welfare' does not mean what you and the left thinks it means."

And thanks for being our new authority on, not only what we think, but the Constitution as well. You don’t disappoint.

Since Mr. Paine is no longer with us, you might be designated our new “Mr. Constitution”.

Thank you for your lecture. It is mostly your opinion, and again unsupported by evidence. You didn’t even quote the Constitution, as I did.

"The federal government was ONLY authorized to do those very few specific things outlined in the constitution.”

And that is my point. Taxes, regulation of commerce and the general welfare are all included. You don’t like that so you want to unilaterally re-define terms.

You accuse liberals, without evidence again, of having “perverted” views that concur with Supreme Court rulings. I would suggest what has been perverted is the definition of free speech and corporate person-hood.

But obviously you know what I think.

 "Yeah, I read your “conservative” article. Nice of you to tell me what I think,”

Do you mean this? “They believe they are defending liberty, religious freedom and capitalism, instead of repression, inequality, and corporatism.”

Your words have made my point.

 "Here’s a tip, Einstein; just because someone believes in capitalism, morality, and liberty (in other words conservatism) that doesn’t make him a racist.”

Complete with the far Right Victim Card tactic, no less.

Then I went on to cite the repression, inequality, and corporatism imposed by your corporate sponsors and their Party.

 "you got nearly every single point wrong.”

And yet you couldn’t offer one bit of evidence as proof? 

Maybe you need help with a format?

Try this:

“Dave, I have to say you are wrong in stating (_____) and claiming (_______). These facts (_____) and (____) suggest you are mistaken.”

What does it take with your side? It’s called communication. I suppose that is meaningless to an ideology that rejects compromise.

"That idiot keeps wanting to deny seats on the bench to people just because they are Catholic."

How many are Catholics now, again?  Victim card again.

But It’s OK If You’re A Republican to deny the Black President his Constitutional duty to appoint a Justice.

Very “not racist”, of course. Can’t be going there. No sireee.

"It is a damned shame the Democrats insist on hurting people because they refuse to secure the border. Their hate of Trump far outweighs doing the right thing for the nation and their constituents."

And one more wild-eyed, spiteful, anger inciting, evidence-free false accusation.

No. You do not disappoint.

This is con-servatism.



11 comments:

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"The Federalist published an opinion piece defending Roy Moore’s dating of teenagers while he was in his 30s and arguing that such behavior was 'not without some merit if one wants to raise a large family.'" ~~ Dave Dubya

LOLOL Priceless!

What a bunch of perves... [head shaking]

Dave Dubya said...

JG,
Con-servative "values" are power, privilege and punishment for adversaries, and whatever puts Republicans and corporations in control. Their sanctimonious hypocrisy has been forever exposed by their devotion to Trump. It is a devotion they share with Nazis, The Klan, white nationalists, and other racists and bigots. Noting these facts brings accusations of "playing the race card" from their cult.

They have all gone to the dark side together, united by their resentments, anger, and hatred for their enemies, unions, liberals, progressives, democratic socialists, public and higher education, journalism, and science.

This reminds me of Comey's cutting response to Crooked Don playing his crybaby victim card.

Trump: “Wow, just learned in the Failing New York Times that the corrupt former leaders of the FBI, almost all fired or forced to leave the agency for some very bad reasons, opened up an investigation on me, for no reason & with no proof, after I fired Lyin’ James Comey, a total sleaze!”

Comey: “I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.” — FDR

The "SS Trump" has hit the iceberg. It's only a matter of time, as the demolition of our institutions will continue until Republicans face the inevitable. Their refusal to put our country over power, party and Trump has only exacerbated the worst crimes and abuse of power ever to poison the White House.

They are all appeasers, abettors, and traitors. The whole damn Government Of Putin.

Rex said...

“1. Both the House and Senate voted for a CR that included funding for border security.” – Dave

Yes, however, the funding for border security regarding the wall was only a fraction of what is actually needed to close serious holes in the border. By the way, Trump asked for $5.7 billion for the wall; he did not ask for $50 billion as you stated.

“2. Trump was about to sign it, then the voices of his far Right base called him a coward.” -Dave

Do you mean like the people that elected him and for whom he promised to build a wall? Those people? I know I have written my congressman regarding this issue encouraging him to provide such funding as well as to enact REAL immigration reform instead of just providing amnesty.

“3. Trump proudly claims the shutdown as his own. Trump is the ONLY one who is refusing to compromise.” – Dave

Truly? Chuck and Nancy sure seemed like they were not willing to compromise. We have paid over $6 billion to put up sound barriers along interstates at tax payer expense, but we cannot spend $5.7 billion to actually secure our border where drugs, human trafficking, MS13 and other gang members, and potential terrorists can cross?

Pelosi changed the House rules a week and a half ago. We don’t need to offset additional spending with additional revenue or spending cuts according to these new rules. Evidently spending and debt really aren’t that big of a deal to the Democrats, so “wasting money” is a lame excuse. Surprise!

The bottom line is that Pelosi and Schumer have been in congress over a combined fifty years. During that time, what have they ever done regarding the border? Nothing. They are a huge part of the problem. They demand amnesty, legalization, and citizenship which only draws more illegals to America. This is what they want; future Democrats. This is why they will never seriously secure the border. They and their accomplices in the media will continue to spout their lies. They never wanted to secure the border truly, and with Trump in the oval office, they certainly won’t ever compromise now.

And now back to our regularly scheduled display of leftist tolerance and love.

Rex said...

It's been awhile since any comments were "approved" and posted. I do sincerely hope all is well for you and your loved one's, Dave.

Perhaps you simply have become "too busy" and found a life outside of blogging for the moment.:)

U.P. Tim said...

I love how you let Rex know about his touch of inter-personal charm in the third paragraph. I had to laugh. Dialogue is impossible with most members of CRAP. I wish I had the way with words that you do Dave. Keep up the good work and hammering these clowns with the truth. Most of their arguments are ludicrous.

U.P. Tim said...

Now we can add suborning perjury to the list. Jesus Christ, what a crime family. Sent Mitch McConnell and email yesterday with a touch of my inter-personal charm. Sure looks like they're working hard to make Russia Great Again. I'm so pissed with their votes to allow lifting sanctions for Deripuska and his companies. Keep up the good work Dave, sure wish I had the command of the English language like you do. Trump has the crud, as everything he touches turns to S--t. Keep hammering the cult of CRAP, but as we know it's almost impossible to have a sensible dialogue with them.

Dave Dubya said...

Rex,
Thank you for your kind and concerned response. It's good that some conservatives can be decent too. My vacation was splendid. Not a Republican or Democrat in sight. Paradise.

And thanks for spotting my typo. like all responsible journalists, essayists, and opinion writers, and unlike Trump and FOX(R), I acknowledge mistakes. Perhaps I was distracted by visions of palm trees and beaches in a "shithole country"?

"Trump was about to sign it, then the voices of his far Right base called him a coward."

Good. This fact is established. It was neither good faith governing nor compromise.

Ditto for "Trump proudly claims the shutdown as his own." Truly. He did. It was on TV, even.

"Trump is the ONLY one who is refusing to compromise.”

He has rejected negotiation and all offers of compromise. You asked for the facts. That is also a fact. It has always been his way or the highway. Now there is opposition and checks and balance. Not the stuff of tyranny.

One more fact. Democrats want the government open and the Coast Guard, TSA, and others paid before good faith negotiation and compromise can be made. Trump is holding them all as pawns and hostages to the unpopular demands of his minority of far right propagandists and white nationalist base. What was that the founders mentioned about "consent of the governed"?

During that time, what have they (Pelosi and Schumer) ever done regarding the border? Nothing.

This is not a fact. They have approved border security funding in the past AND in the CR that Trump reneged on. The fact is they have said they will negotiate, but not while Trump's tantrum shutdown is in effect. That would only reward his vile tactic and appease his authoritarian, pointless, stupid, destructive cruelty.

He is demanding capitulation, not compromise.

This is not governing by compromise of representative democracy. It is authoritarianism.

"They and their accomplices in the media will continue to spout their lies."

No supporting evidence was provided. I've been noting this pattern from conservatives for years.

How about this one?

“It is becoming more and more obvious that the Radical Democrats are a Party of open borders and crime."

This is pretty much directly from Hitler and Stalin's playbook. You seem OK with it? I say it is evil. Racism is evil. Hate is evil. Bigotry is evil. Pathological lying is evil. And Trump is evil. But all that evil is embraced and conservative ideology is wedded to it.

I agree that all politicians are apt to tell untruths now and then. Guess who holds the uncontested record? Why should the nation be subject to the whims and demands of a racist, bigoted, ignorant liar? You don't like Venezuela, fine. But the far Right seems to want the US to be authoritarian like Putin's Russia. Guess what? Progressives and liberals and Democrats don't want to be like either one of them. But the far Right propaganda will deny this reality. All that hate-mongering, scapegoating, false accusation and dishonesty is evil too.

Whatever happened to conservative values? Democracy, fair representation, and basic human decency are now absent from their political ideology

I'm happy to continue discussing the facts, but you will need to admit your errors, or provide documentation to their accuracy, as well as show evidence that contradicts my points. I even provided a template for disagreement with me, but that was another futile gesture, it seems.

Is this a reasonable request?

Again, thank you for noting my typo.



Dave Dubya said...

Tim,
It would be nice to hear the truth, but Trump keeps threatening Cohen's family. He's nothing more than a lying thug and bully. And a crook. Election law violations and obstruction of justice are just two of his obvious crimes.

Evidence abounds of his being a useful idiot, or outright agent, of Putin as well.

Imagine the outcry from the Right if Obama was like that. Hypocrites is the mildest of terms for them. Evil must be called for what it is. Trump is evil. Period.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"Many different cost estimates have been thrown around, from as little as $8 billion to as much as $70 billion, with anywhere from $150 million per year to $750 million per year in maintenance." ~~ Fox News, "Trump's Border Wall - How Much It Will Actually Cost According to a Statistician", by Liberty Vittert, December 11, 2018

Ms. Vittert broke all costs down, itemized, and came up with a base cost of $25B. That's without any "bells and whistles", and excluding maintenance costs.

Where Trump came up with $5.7B to build everything, is questionable. I suspect he knows this is totally under what it'll actually cost, but being his standoff (and subsequent shutdown) is purely a political maneuver to appease his base, he doesn't care.

Or, he knows a debt-limit vote is soon coming up, so he's thinking he can hold the country hostage once again to pay for the actual price-tag.

Dave Dubya said...

JG,
Rex is right that Trump didn't ask for $50 billion... yet.

I'll leave the $50 billion in my response because we know Trump's demands would never stop, and ultimately would reach that amount, or more, if democrats capitulated to him.

And people will still dig under the wall, overstay visas, and ship the great majority of the drugs through ports of entry.

If the far Right cared about the safety and needs of the American people they would demand our Coast Guard, TSA, air traffic controllers, law enforcement and others be paid and not held as political pawns.

They don't care. Many rejoice in punishing federal employees.

The far Right white nationalist MINORITY wants a Big Wall because Trump wants it, and because they want to "own the libs", and most of all, they fear brown Democrat "invaders".

It is entirely about authoritarian ideological dominance.



Jefferson's Guardian said...

They don't care." ~~ Dave Dubya

Haven't, for at least decades. It used to be hidden and only seen by those scrutinizing their actions and paying attention. Now, their actions are in-your-face, unmistakable and obvious to everyone -- even to your resident trolls, "Rex" and the racist.

Of course neither will admit it though. Instead, they hate us for shoving it back into their faces and down their throats. It's the putrid aftertaste that annoys them the most.