Sunday, August 9, 2015

About Those "I" Countries

 A note to our friend. This turned out to be a bit wordy for way down a comment thread.

My dear TP, a man of common sense.

I just got back from my favorite summer camp in the woods. You’d love it. It was a friend’s deer camp with river access and trout pond. I toasted you with Wild Turkey while wild turkeys scratched the leaves around us. What a weekend.  But I’m mostly recovered now.

You left me a message while I was out.

Oh dear…

For the record, Bush's "war of aggression" would have been just that, if it would have been based on lies. It wasn't. It was based on mistaken assumptions, however.

Do you really think that a culture that worships death is afraid of annihilation?

The left's hatred of the Right and their perceived boogeymen in the military and the MIC are causing them to appease our enemies in a manner that would make Neville Chamberlain blush. 

This is more regurgitation of FOX/Limbaugh…Sigh. Please, cite some source apart from the sort mentioned for such claims. Remember even the New York Times parroted Cheney.  

Can you not keep returning to that hateful drivel? There’s that “Left’s hatred” lie again. I hate lies and that one is a  whopper. Such false accusations reflect the hate of the accuser, not the accused.

Is this a result of the constant fear in the hearts of conservatives? You do realize fear mongering was, and is, a specialty of the neocons? They WANT war. Their lust for war is obvious in their meme, “Men go to Baghdad, real men go through Tehran”. This is a cult, buddy. Learn to question them.

We understand, in your view, Ike was one of those exemplifying the “left’s perceived MIC boogeymen”. When a Republican president and leader in WWII is a “leftist”, that’s a sure sign of koolade intoxication.

Please try to understand this. The left distrusts the defense industry as engineers of foreign policy, as well as corporations dictating domestic environmental, labor and trade law. This is not “hate”. This is common sense my friend.

If you understand a corporation is not a person, then you have an inkling of how we see the picture. Leave the Limbaugh/FOX “Liberals hate and envy” lies out of it. It is projected hate.

I’m at a loss to understand your satisfaction with unending  war ignited by “mistaken assumptions”. This, sir, for the record, would be the fatal flaw of the worst kind of leadership. The needless war of aggression gave Iraq a civil war, gave Iran their best ally, and fired thousands of Iraqi soldiers who turned to ISIL.

Then the flawed leadership was re-elected.  Maybe this could be expected from a culture that worships death?

For the record, “mistaken assumptions” is only in the Bush/Neocon record. The historic and journalist record has authentic and documented recordings of their lies, you know.

You seem far less forgiving with Obama’s “mistaken assumptions”, despite Bush’s drastically higher body count.

I agree Obama has his share of mistaken assumptions, or betrayals of democracy and Constitution. I hope it isn’t hate clouding your judgment. Maybe as you say, he is such a fool. How’s that go? “Fool me once, won’t get fooled again”.

The thousands of American and uncounted thousands of Iraqi dead seem to indicate a death worship closer to home. Just saying what it looks like to some of those living among evil ones.

The US NEVER apologized for blowing almost 300 innocent Iranians out of the sky. I guess that’s what Iranians can expect from the US culture of death worship that their far Right religious leaders are agitating about.

With Israel holding a nuke over Iranian heads, while the American military surrounds them, is it a wonder Iran has their hard liner conservatives doing their best to terrify them? What on earth would give them reason to say they can’t trust America? I mean, really.

These are the Iranians who agree with you, the Republicans and Netanyahu on dumping international diplomacy.

To your eyes, international diplomacy is “Rewarding their terrorism by removing sanctions and allowing them to keep certain nuclear capacities”.

The words “allowing them to keep” betray the fact they are conceding most of their centrifuges. There will be international inspections. What do we have now, besides more threats and war? We hear endless demonizing by the stupid comparisons to Chamberlain and Hitler. 

Do you think this lame propaganda from those with no answer deserves consideration?

Iran, like the USSR did, supports resistance groups opposing US allies or puppets.. Escalating this is the wrong thing to do. We didn’t need to nuke the USSR, another “empire of evil” we were taught to fear.

This is not the time to surrender to the neocon war agenda again.

I feel a twinge of pity, not hate, my friend, for those who drink the Cheney/neocon koolade so deeply. What is it that disconnects someone from: “Saddam has ties./connections to al-Qaeda” and “trains al-Qaeda in deadly gases”, and “nukular” aluminum tubes, and Cheney’s “pretty much confirmed” Prague fiction. All of this was presented as fact, not assumptions. Not even “maybe”. No sir.

These were verifiable lies in 2003 , old buddy. Honest to God.

Their words are still there to see. Do you remember this famous Bush lie? “Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so.”

Don’t worry, the court HE ordered is still on the job.

I’m curious how that lie is viewed by the Bush/Cheney apologists.

British Intelligence noted this:

Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran.

At some point evidence and reason should be considered. Beliefs without examination, and faith in Bush/Cheney, or any leaders, are dangerous and cultish.

It was very easy for Americans to believe the warmongering. Corporate media were salivating for big ratings, and dutifully did their part in frightening Americans into thinking Saddam had something to do with 9-11. MSNBC even kicked Phil Donahue off the air for asking the wrong questions. This political correctness amounted to censorship for serious dissent. Liberals were called traitors for daring to call out the lies.

The Neocons and voices of Neoliberalsim are barely challenged by our corporate media. Why? It is more profitable not to. Both would be thoroughly discredited by evidence, fact and reason. Will it take another Bush and another war for this to sink in? Probably not. 

Misplaced faith in those with mistaken assumptions will ALWAYS lead to destruction.
  
I will wait and greet you with open arms as we share the values and efforts at conserving what matters. Something got lost behind the cloud of Neocon propaganda, corporate “Free speech” and “dark money” from billionaires.

Remember government of, by and for the people? 

7 comments:

Jerry Critter said...

"Remember government of, by and for the people?"

Thats why corporations were declared people!

Dave Dubya said...

Jerry,

Thank God for the conservative compassion for "Corporate Rights". It's not enough that neo-aristocrats have all the "free speech". They need their property to have more rights too.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

The Corporatist Party (both wings), which has morphed and transformed from the previously known Democratic and Republican parties, has successfully usurped the Constitution by favoring property over human beings. The stealth-like internal coup d'état is almost complete, which explains conservative disregard and denial of the facts. The takeover has been clothed under the moniker of "capitalism", thus their undying acceptance.

Dave Dubya said...

JG,
"Conservatism" has merely traded loyalty to "divine right of kings" to divine right of wealth.

Democracy, representative republic, constitutional provisions for the general welfare and regulation of commerce have been demonized as the evil, liberal, commie "nanny state".

Their reverence for wealth, subservience to the Likud Party, and embracing of unprovoked war of aggression has facilitated the totalitarian "daddy state".

Liberals must still blamed for everything by the fascistic authoritarian daddy state, despite the lack of any liberals being in charge or having influence. If democrats are liberals, then why wasn't the "liberal agenda" passed when democrats held Congress and the White House? More business as usual and continued war was what we got. Obamacare is nothing more than a re-hashed Republican idea that only became bad when Obama wanted it.

For the far Right the problem is Bush, Cheney, Romney, et al are "not conservative".

Only the enlightened few understand the lock Big Money Free Speech has on politicians and public policy. Now that money has been exponentially increased, as well as the secrecy surrounding it.

Better blame liberals. Works all the time.

T. Paine said...

Dave, you get frustrated when I point out the hypocrisy and foolishness of the left, and call it lies and hateful. And yet you turn around and make sweeping assertions about conservatism that simply aren’t factual in very damning terms.

As for me, I do not listen to Limbaugh but once in a very blue moon, if then. Yes, I sometimes watch Fox News. I also watch CNN and MSNBC too. I like to get various perspectives on each day’s issues. It would be nice if each network would simply report the facts of who, what, where, when, and why instead of editorializing with their own political slant, but then true objective journalism has been dead for generations now. Sorry if you find my reporting of facts contrary to your preconceived notions as “hateful drivel” being parroted from “FOX/Limbaugh” accordingly, my friend.

I know that there are many on the left, like yourself, that still love America and the ideas for which it stands in liberty and constitutional law. That said, there are even more on the left that have resorted to class warfare, identity politics, and America-bashing as a matter of course. Yes, this country has lots of problems, and both parties have been guilty of ignoring the constitution and eroding our Bill of Rights, but there is far more to still be proud of with this nation. American exceptionalism still does exist, buddy, despite the tearing down of this nation from the left, and from some of the right-wing fringes too.

Indeed, if all of the world’s borders were opened and transportation provided for all willing to travel, do you honestly think that our nation would not have a population in excess of a billion people instead of the 330 million it now has? Why is that? What is it that STILL makes this the greatest nation on earth? Ask the immigrants from India, East Asia, and South America why they come here. It is because we are supposedly still a nation of laws. We are a nation that says you can make a better life here. You are not judged by your class or who your parents were. You can go as far as your skills and desires and hard work will take you. There is liberty here and the promise of a better life for one and his children. That is why people still come here, even though We The People have ignorantly and foolishly tolerated our “leaders” to tarnish that promise of liberty with corruption, incompetence, and greed.

Not all, but far too many on the left want to tear down America. They want us to be “global” citizens first and Americans second. Look how well that concept has worked for the European Union. We should be proud of the things that has made our nation great. Yes, we should own our transgressions and learn from them, but we need to celebrate this experiment of government by the people and work to educate our children so that they can make wise choices in how we choose our future leaders and thereby govern ourselves.

Should we provide for those that are UNABLE to care for themselves? Absolutely. Should we help those that are temporarily down on their luck? Sure, but we should NOT make it easier to be on welfare than it is to be self-sufficient. Should we demand that when we put troops in harm’s way that congress declares a state of war, as they are constitutionally obligated to do? You bet! Should we hold our Presidents, Secretary of States, Attorney Generals, Senators, Congressmen, and all elected leaders to greater accountability and penalty when they break the law? Yes, every single time, regardless of party!

T. Paine said...

Further, we need to stop seeing ourselves as African-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, Azerbaijani-Americans etc. We are not sub-groups of this nation. We are all AMERICANS. Black lives matter; Hispanic lives matter; American lives matter; ALL LIVES MATTER. We need to start acting as such and stop with trying to find ways to further separate and divide us.

We need to pay attention towards existential threats to our nation like ISIS, al Quaida, and the Iranian mullahs. We need to negotiate with our enemies when possible, enact sanctions when not, and resort to force with a declaration of war only as a very last resort.

Yes, we need to take money out of politics. We need to punish those that bribe and takes bribes in our government with alacrity and severity. We need to reverse the Citizens United decision and remove corporations and unions as “people”. Only people should have those voting rights, which must be secured and protected for all Americans… and Americans ONLY!

Both sides of the political aisle are very good at pointing at the speck in the other side’s eye while ignoring the beam in their own. We need to stop this. We need to quit supporting the Hillarys and the Trumps and look to candidates that actually have ideas and are willing to govern for all of us Americans. We need someone as president that will lead and stop dividing this nation. President Obama has squandered such a great opportunity to do so, and sadly that will become his legacy.

My wish is that, despite our differing political ideologies, we could at least unite behind the rule of law and the constitution and insist that our leaders must do the same ALL THE TIME. I know you feel the same way, Dave. And when those politicians don’t, this government by the people and for the people must hold them accountable so as to make them an example to all other would-be scoundrels that we Americans are proud of our nation, its constitution, and its traditions and we will not stand any longer for those that wish to divide or unjustly profit through their transgressional “service” to the country. If we do not cease with these divisions through hatred and come back together to once again strengthen our constitutional representative republic, we will fall as a nation. I know that there are some that think that is fitting for America. I do not. I know you don’t either Dave. Cheers!

Dave Dubya said...

TP,

I’m not sure what you find as “sweeping assertions about conservatism”. If you check to see, you’ll not find the word “conservative” or “conservatism” in the post. “Efforts at conserving what matters” is the closest I found, and I include myself as one who desires conserving what matters.

Your statements that I addressed are all repetitions from Limbaugh, FOX, Breitbart, and the rest of Right Wing corporate media. You seemed to not understand its very existence in one comment.

“True objective journalism” does exist when it reports verifiable facts. We need to separate facts from spin though.

The “hateful drivel” does not refer to facts counter to my preconceived notions. It refers to very real accusation from the Right that liberals are hateful. I thought that was clear.

American exceptionalism, like the “American Dream” exists for some, but not for most. It is not a universal, objective truth.

People from third world countries want to come here because they see more opportunity here than in Mexico, India, and other poor nations. They go to “socialist” England too. They are not flocking here from Denmark and Norway. So, yes the US is not the worst place in the world. So why judge us by the lower third world standards? It’s not as complimentary as you may believe.

“Not all, but far too many on the left want to tear down America.”

Thanks for the qualifier. Now document this with evidence from non-Right Wing media, if you can. I don’t think you are aware you are parroting propaganda. I’ll tell you what we want to tear down in a minute.

Another false belief you share with Right Wing media is “Liberals want more unemployed people to suck up welfare”. Nobody but Right Wing media makes this absurd claim. As I have repeated numerous times, liberals want jobs for everyone, not handouts. Lack of jobs is a failure of capitalism, not the welfare state. Jobs are off-shored by the economic elites who then berate those who lost the jobs as “useless takers”. Thanks, Mitt. Or they are lazy and don’t work enough. Thanks, Jebby.

That sure smells like class warfare to me. And just who’s winning this class war as wealth trickles ever upward.

If you want to destroy America keep sending our jobs overseas and force us to compete with Chinese labor. That ain’t liberalism, buddy.

I also think your idea of “existential threats” is over amplified by the fear the terrorists wish upon us. They win when we fall for that. They cannot do any more damage to our way of life than we do to ourselves in over-reaction out of fear of them.

I don’t think you understand the point of “Black Lives Matter”. It isn’t saying other lives don’t. Context, my friend.

Yes, we need to take money out of politics. We need to punish those that bribe and takes bribes in our government with alacrity and severity. We need to reverse the Citizens United decision and remove corporations and unions as “people”. Only people should have those voting rights, which must be secured and protected for all Americans… and Americans ONLY!

Amen, brother!

The rot and corruption has been institutionalized. Perhaps that rot is what liberals want to destroy, not America?