Monday, October 7, 2013

Liberals, Commies and Nazis, Oh My!

California Republicans, dwindling species as they've become, are on the move.

Their three-day convention focused attention on recruiting new Republican voters, specifically women, the Associated Press reported. 

They even had cool buttons to entice new female converts to their cult.

KFC Hillary Special
2 Fat Thighs 2 Small Breasts
One Left Wing

Yeah, that should do the trick. Women just love that misogynist kind of stuff.

But they didn't stop there. They had to goose-step even further to the radical Right. They just couldn't restrain their hate.

I Still Hate Commies...
Even After They Changed Their Name To
Liberals.

“Commies” and “Liberals” are in red letters, of course.

And there you have it. The Koolade Cult bubble in all its radical hateful essence.

Assholes like these want a one-party dictatorship, and its time for Americans to wake up.

Theses nuts make Nazis look like liberals...literally. The Cult leaders have decided to tell their dupes Hitler’s “National Socialism” was really liberalism, the same as government public health programs or Social Security. 

Yes, they say Nazis were liberal socialists, as well as liberals are commies. And the cult chugs that koolade down.

One koolade cult member even challenged me with, “Nazis were for socialized health care, you ok with that?”

Never mind Germany had socialized health care decades before the Nazis.

For those not in the koolade cult, we refer to the Jewish Virtual Library:

In April, 1920, Hitler advocated that the party should change its name to the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). Hitler had always been hostile to socialist ideas, especially those that involved racial or sexual equality. However, socialism was a popular political philosophy in Germany after the First World War. This was reflected in the growth in the German Social Democrat Party (SDP), the largest political party in Germany.

Hitler, therefore redefined socialism by placing the word 'National' before it.

Yes, Nazis and commies too, according to the cult, were nothing but liberals.

So... If it’s fair to compare liberals to commies AND Nazis... then it’s more than fair to say:

“I still hate Nazis, even after they changed their name to Republicans”.

Sounds almost as crazy, right? Except Nazis hated, and still do hate, liberals, just like Republicans.

In reality, in addition to Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and communists, Nazis rounded up liberals. Even socialists. Imagine that.

Did you know Nazis partnered with big business? They worked with Krupps, Siemans, BMW, even Ford while they could. They even got rid of unions, and that pesky minimum wage that Nazis and Republicans dislike so much.

Remember:

Fascism n. A philosophy or system of government that advocates or exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with an ideology of belligerent nationalism. – American Heritage Dictionary

Yup, just like Republicans do today with the Koch Tea Party, FOX(R) Tea Party, etc. Ever see a Tea Party rally against the Patriot Act? How about a rally against the Roberts appointed conservative FISA court?

No. They hate liberals and call a public health program communism.

Nazis hated and demonized liberals, college professors, teachers, real socialists, journalists and unions. Yup, just like Republicans do today.

“Papers, please”, has gone from a stereotypical Nazi demand to a Republican mandated stop and checkpoint phrase. “Stop and frisk” has only been temporarily declared unconstitutional. It will be back with the next GOP leadership. That’s a promise.

Nazis also hated democracy. They took power and overcame the will of the people with a minority of votes.

Likewise, the Republican Party in our time.

Bush v Gore overruled the will of American voters. “HALT! ze vote count! “ And Bush “won”.

The House of Representatives is controlled today by Republicans through gerrymandering. As with Bush v Gore, the American voters cast about a half million more votes for their Democratic candidates.  And of course the Tea Cult now preposterously claims to represent the “will of the people”.

Right.

The Republicans are also actively working to suppress voter registration and poll access in the states they control.
  
“Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done." - GOP State House Majority Leader Mike Turazi (R-Allegheny)

"We do make it convenient for people to vote," Senate Republican Mike Bennett, from Bradenton said. "But I have to tell you, I don't have a problem making it harder. I want people in Florida to want to vote as bad as that person in Africa who walks 200 miles across the desert. This should not be easy”.

Former Florida governor Crist testified in the Senate that there was voter suppression in Florida:

Former Republican Party of Florida Chairman Jim Greer said he attended various meetings, beginning in 2009, at which party staffers and consultants pushed for reductions in early voting days and hours.

“The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told The Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only. … ‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,’ ” Greer said he was told by those staffers and consultants.

“They never came in to see me and tell me we had a (voter) fraud issue,” Greer said. “It’s all a marketing ploy.”

The Republican Party’s opposition to democracy is clear.

Nazis hated to compromise too, just like Republicans do today.

And finally, as their Nazi forbears, Republicans are making it party policy to accuse liberals of being communists. Do they require reading “Mein Kampf” for membership now?

As every sane person knows, government public health programs and safety nets do not constitute communism. “Sane” being the operative term.

But it is getting very difficult to discern radical Right Republicanism from fascism. They see, or at least portray, liberals as communists out to destroy America.

And they seek, and stop at nothing, to gain absolute power. In light of this cult’s terrifying mission, we need to ask this question:

If the radical Right seizes their one-party dictatorship, what measures would they take to impose their final solution to the “liberal problem”?

You know they would if they could.

If they don’t like being compared to fascists, then they should stop acting like fascists.


Democracy by ballot is their enemy, and our only hope is to vote the neo-fascists out of our government. Then we go to work on their appeasers in the Democratic Party. 

76 comments:

Grung_e_Gene said...

Fascism is rule of government by Corporatism. And the modern core ideas of the Republican party, bigotry, racism, subjugation of women, rabid nationalism, destruction of social welfare, are exactly what the NAZIs instituted.

Jerry Critter said...

"Assholes like these want a one-party dictatorship"

And that is exactly what these assholes, in California anyway, have created. Unfortunately for them and fortunately for the rest of us, the one party is the Democratic Party. The Republican Party is now powerless in state politics.

Shaw Kenawe said...

I think Bill Moyers has named this insurgency by the TeaPublicans exactly what it is: A cold civil war.


The confederates of the old south, don't like our election outcomes, so they will destroy the country to change them and get their way.

Have the modern insurgents and traitors to the US forgotten how that ended the last time they tried it?

Demeur said...

I think we need a new party now. The Demorats are no better in that they let the Rethuglicons get away with this.

People say Obama is a socialist. Nothing could be farther from the truth. He's as much a corporatist as any on the right. He went right along with every tax break for corporations that the right sneaked into any bills he signed.

Hitler only used the socialist name to get what he wanted. There was the "night of long knives" where he set about to kill all the socialists in Germany. People seem to forget that part of history.

free0352 said...

God forbid the GOP vote no on a budget because it funds a program that you yourself Dave have said is just a huge fucking give-away to major insurance companies.

The confederates of the old south

So, states that weren't even in the union or barely or not at all territories during the civil way - like Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, Utah etc... what do you call it when they don't support ObamaCare?

free0352 said...

Hitler only used the socialist name to get what he wanted

Socialism is when the state controls the means of production. Would you ever... for even one second... suggest that the Nazi Party didn't control every aspect of life in the Reich to include production? No person who cracked a history book for ten seconds would suggest otherwise.

Socialism is an economic system that has nothing to do with politics. You can have a totally free socialist economy - like say Finland... or a totalitarian socialist economy like say... Nazi Germany under National Socialism. The only requirement for socialism, is that the economy is under government control. If socialism is one extreme, Laissez-faire would be the other with little to zero government oversight.

In Nazi Germany, the Nazi Party controlled everything which made it the socialist extreme. Literally every aspect of life let alone the economy was under party control. Your babies even had to be inspected. You had to get a permit to marry and show your family tree. You couldn't sell or buy from a Jew... hardly capitalist!

What National Socialism was, was a socialist economy married to a kind of bizarre, hyper violent white power movement with extreme nationalism thrown in for good measure. Hitler's blueprint for National Socialism wasn't exactly coherent - but he stated in Mien Kamph that Communism was actually a Jewish plot to gain dominance over the Aryan race which it had been trying to do for two thousand years. The Nazi theory was; that Jewish bankers would use Capitalism to destroy the economies of Aryan nations, then bait the workers into Communist revolutions which would leave a Jewish oligarchy in possession of the worlds wealth with the Aryan race as their slaves. This wasn't exactly original, it was a surprisingly popular idea at the time. Europe has quite the tradition of bizarre antisemitism. This is because capitalism was a pretty new concept for Germany who for centuries had its government and economy dominated by an aristocracy which controlled both with an iron fist. The German people were leery of being "on their own" in a capitalist economy and felt abandoned by the state. Combined with the insecurity they felt under capitalism, and the inflation and national insult done to Germany due to the Treaty of Versailles, they turned to National Socialism in droves.

It was the stupidest solution ever, but a massive chunk of Western Europe fell for it.

Hitler and National Socialism's ideal was a socialist command economy just liberal enough to foster innovation. The Marxist ideal -which Hitler labeled a Jewish conspiracy- was a sort of anarcho-communism brought about in stages which was horrifying to fascist National Socialists. Their version was not Marx's Socialism but Chancellor Bismark's - a tyrant in his own right. It is true that Bismark set up low cost insurance for the poor - the Nazis greatly expanded this. It was as if Bismark had set up BismarkCare and Hitler set up single payer.

That in and of its self was not an immoral thing - though the German Health Service was used to commit a slew of crimes against humanity. Plenty of socialist countries have set up nationalized health systems and while they have many problems none of the other's beside's Hitler's were used for purposes of genocide.

So yes, Hitler was a Socialist in the Bismark sense of the word. That also didn't make him pure evil. Other beliefs certainly did.

As for Obama, he's not a National Socialist - or even a totalitarian one though it can seem so at times when he regularly over steps governmental authority. We must remember that our country is so free, what in other western nations would seem a minor intrusion seems like a violation here. Its relative.

In short, Obama wants to turn us into Finland - not Nazi Germany. But even with that being so, that doesn't require Congress to go along with it.

Grung_e_Gene said...

The Republicans and conservatives have been running with the liberals are squishy commies! liberals are squishy commies! liberals are squishy commies! for decades. There is little reason to think that will change now or ever.

The Right is fundamentally duped into their position of supporting a group that says smaller government but whose actions show the smaller government they want is one just big enough to fit into the pocket of the Super Rich.

Norquist and others have always let on what their final goal is:

The Creation of a Feudal State in which the Middle Class is obliterated and the Working Class are shackled to the gears of Industry and War.

They simply dupe the conservatives with pleas to guns, gays and god.

The common vision: an America in which the rich will be taxed at the same rates as the poor, where capital is freed from government constraints, where government services are turned over to the free market, where the minimum wage is repealed, unions are made irrelevant, and law-abiding citizens can pack handguns in every state and town. "My ideal citizen is the self-employed, homeschooling, IRA-owning guy with a concealed-carry permit,"said Grover Norquist. "Because that person doesn't need the goddamn government for anything."

free0352 said...

Have the modern insurgents and traitors to the US forgotten how that ended the last time they tried it?

Last time I read history, the Democrats lost the Civil War. Maybe you should remember that.

free0352 said...

"My ideal citizen is the self-employed, homeschooling, IRA-owning guy with a concealed-carry permit,"said Grover Norquist. "Because that person doesn't need the goddamn government for anything."

Sounds pretty good to me. What are you advocating, a society where everyone needs the government? A giant welfare state? Nah.

Dave Dubya said...

Gene,
Two unarguable points you make are:

the modern core ideas of the Republican party... exactly what the NAZIs instituted.

The merging of corporate and government leadership coupled with belligerent nationalism is fascism, and clearly the goal of the GOP. The demonization and scapegoating, whether of liberals or Jews, are also hallmarks of fascism. But as we know the GOP and Fascism are further bound by their mutual hatred for and opposition to unions, educators, a free press, journalism, minimum wage, public support of non-ideological themed arts, and above all, democracy. Democracy is antithetical to the merging of corporate and government leadership and must be suppressed and neutralized, it not outright eradicated.

the smaller government they want is one just big enough to fit into the pocket of the Super Rich.

This is exactly what they want. It is dictatorship by neo-feudalism. Owners and serfs. The same goal for the so-called “libertarian” Koch brothers. As I said, we don’t see them funding rallies to end the drug war or surveillance state, do we?

Jerry,
Californians must remember powerful out of state economic and religious forces are doing their best interfere with your state. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty".

Shaw,
The modern confederates are seeking not to secede, but to overthrow and seize our government, and they want economic enslavement for the entire nation. And because they have dupes in the North and Midwest in addition to the South this time, they are winning.

Demeur,
Of course Obama is a corporatist. Our bought and paid for elections system ensures only corporatists attain the presidency. The radical Right hate him anyway, because they are more extreme and more racist, and thus fascists.

Dave Dubya said...

Free,
Hitler continued socialized health care, and it was the least fascist thing he did. Dr. Mengele was most certainly not a “health care provider”.

Amazing, to see such a commentary on Nazis almost completely devoid of the term fascism. Your redundant “fascist National Socialists” is hardly a distinction between Nazis and socialists. It appears the only history book you must have read is the Right Wing crackpot Jonah Goldberg’s “Liberal Fascism”.

Capitalists, authoritarians, and aristocrats did well under, and along, with Hitler, until the war destroyed their Reich. German capitalists enjoyed slave labor. They loved that fact that Nazis outlawed unions. Nazis were supported and funded by bankers, industrialists and aristocrats who feared the growing influence of socialists and communists. Capitalists profited. This was NOT socialism. It was fascism. Learn that word.

You can see Germany had a “government and economy dominated by an aristocracy which controlled both with an iron fist”, yet you cannot see the same thing happening here. What more proof do you need than “liberals are commies destroying America” and the rest of the ideology shared by fascists and the modern American Right?

“Socialism is an economic system that has nothing to do with politics and socialism is when the state controls the means of production” is what the communist Soviets and Chinese had. That is not modern democratic socialism.

Under socialism the workers and producers themselves would have had control of the means of production. That didn’t happen in Nazi Germany and not under Stalin. Fascist and communist dictatorships are not socialism, but dictatorships. Modern democratic socialism is public health programs like Medicare, retirement and disability insurance like Social Security, a Center for Disease Control, and other safety nets. Nothing resembling Nazi Germany. Honest. Hell, the banks own the government rather than the other way around. Maybe that should change. The banks de-regulated crony capitalism has cost us a Great Depression and a Great Recession. Fool me twice....

But it’s all “socialism” to you. You parrot Hitler’s deception quite well. Stalin was also good at that deception. Hitler was a fascist. Stalin was a communist. Socialism was their veil of deception to gain power. They were dictators and openly hostile to democratic socialism.

Last time I read history, the Democrats lost the Civil War. Maybe you should remember that.

This is the same kind of Right Wing deception as the “Hitler was a liberal socialist” lie.

History tells us the American Civil War was started by conservative, wealthy Southern aristocrats. Maybe they called themselves democrats then, but today they are all republicans.

Is that news to you?

free0352 said...

The merging of corporate and government leadership

Well if you call a "merger" threatening that if one doesn't do as they are told and tote the party line you'll throw them in Dachau a merging of corporate and government forces I guess you'd have a point. What do you think happened to business leaders in Germany who didn't do what the Nazis told them?

As for the Nazi leadership - none of them was a leading business figure or even a successful small business owner. Hitler, failed painter. Goebbels, failed writer and journalist. Goring - failed stunt pilot. Himmler studied farming in college but never held an actual job outside the party. This stuff goes on, and on. None of the Nazi Party leadership had any business experience or sense. But go ahead, keep spouting the falsity that some how "corporations" caused National Socialism. Its actually more idiotic than equating National Socialism with the Obama administration.

As I said, we don’t see them funding rallies to end the drug war or surveillance state, do we?

Actually their main PAC, Freedom Works has done both, as has CATO Institute who they also heavily donate to. Try again.

Hitler continued socialized health care, and it was the least fascist thing he did. Dr. Mengele was most certainly not a “health care provider”.

He also built a lot of roads. Roads aren't fascist either.

Amazing, to see such a commentary on Nazis almost completely devoid of the term fascism. Your redundant “fascist National Socialists” is hardly a distinction between Nazis and socialists

Well to ignorant I suppose you'd get Fascism and National Socialism confused. Fascism was an Italian system developed by Bonito Mussolini. National Socialism was a German system developed by Adolph Hitler. They are not identical, or beyond the nationalism even similar systems. This was of course why Hitler - fed up with Mussolini - took control of Italy.

Capitalists, authoritarians, and aristocrats did well under

Really? Who exactly did well? Would it be business owners, or those who benefited when non party business leaders who spoke out had their businesses confiscated and given to party members? And even for those whose businesses were not confiscated; were they doing well when under threat of the Gestapo and Dachau should they not tote the Party line? That to me isn't going well. That to be is suffering under a murderous regime.

.

free0352 said...

You can see Germany had a “government and economy dominated by an aristocracy which controlled both with an iron fist”, yet you cannot see the same thing happening here.

Who then is our Kaiser? Where are the Barons, the Dukes, the Counts? Apparently you have wealth and actual aristocracy confused. Last I checked nobody inherits the governorship of New Jersey... or any other elected office.

“Socialism is an economic system that has nothing to do with politics and socialism is when the state controls the means of production” is what the communist Soviets and Chinese had. That is not modern democratic socialism.

Please for the love of god get your definitions right. Did you miss comparative government in high school? Socialism is an economic system. Not a political one. A Democracy is a political system that has nothing at all to do with economics. Voting is not the same as buying and selling things. This should not be a difficult concept, but for you it seems to be. You can have a Communist oligarchy like China - or a Liberal Democracy like Scandinavia - both are using a socialist economic system and radically different political systems.

Under socialism the workers and producers themselves would have had control of the means of production

Under Nazism... they did. Hitler was a working class guy - his dad was a civil servant and at one point Hitler was a homeless bum. Not a billionaire. The Reichstag members were replaced with people from solid working class backgrounds - all loyal Nazi party members. Hitler hated capitalists, and threw them out of office and out of their businesses. When that further damaged the German economy, he instituted massive public works projects full of union members. The world sung his praises at the time. Till they found out a government in Germany that had the power to give you everything, also had the power to take it away.

Socialism was their veil of deception to gain power.

Socialism is just an economic theory. It is also often the road to serfdom, because it creates by nature a powerful state. That state's leadership sometimes is benevolent, sometimes monstrous. When you create a powerful government, the clock starts ticking till the wrong guy gets hold of the reigns of power to that juggernaut. Just imagine if Richard Nixon had today's NSA?

History tells us the American Civil War was started by conservative, wealthy Southern aristocrats

And what party were they members of? What party fought for segregation then, now and forever barely a generation ago? What party today creates a dependent welfare class of reliable voters? The answer is the Democrat Party, easily the most destructive force in American history. They should have banned it along with its old militant wing... the KKK.

Kulkuri said...

What the hell is wrong with getting turned into Finland. They are at the top of many lists, good schools, less corruption, high standard of living, happiness, cleaner environment, etc.

Dave Dubya said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dave Dubya said...

Kulkuri,
I'm with you. Finland is a much safer and saner, not to mention happier, place to be than here. And those socialists even have the right to bear arms.

I gotta say I love “History according to Free”. We learn Nazis were not fascists but in fact, socialists. This is almost as hilarious as “Bush’s reasons for invading Iraq were all true”.

And let’s take this wisdom a step further and declare North Korea as a democratic republic. After all, they call their country the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea, so it must be true.

Perhaps one indication of why I say Free has an authoritarian personality is because he believes what authoritarians, from Hitler to Cheney, say.

What do you think happened to business leaders in Germany who didn't do what the Nazis told them?

And what did the Nazis tell them? Besides increase production and make more money and “let us take care of your union and wage problem”. Well, “Fire Jews” too. We remember the scion of the Bush aristocracy had no problems trading with the enemy. Ford had a good relationship with the Nazis. On his 75th birthday, in 1938, Ford received a Nazi medal, designed for "distinguished foreigners."

Was that medal for Ford’s socialist contributions to the Reich? LOL! No, Bush and Ford and the rest were just being “good Republicans”.

I said, “Capitalists, authoritarians, and aristocrats did well under the Nazis’.

Really? Who exactly did well?

Here’s a good starter list of the Nazis’ corporate collaboratorsHitler hated capitalists ...

...so much he gave them medals, like Henry Ford. Feelings aside, they used each other for political and economic gain.

As for the Nazi leadership - none of them was a leading business figure

Which made them the government leaders who merged with the corporate leaders to implement fascism. Note the business leaders collaborated, rather than leave Germany, They had the choice. Jews didn’t.

“Under socialism the workers and producers themselves would have had control of the means of production”

Under Nazism... they did. Hitler was a working class guy

LOL! There you go again, confusing socialism with a fascist dictator. Hilarious, but oh, so wrong.

he instituted massive public works projects full of union members.

This is a real doozy. So the Nazis supported workers’ collective bargaining rights? LOL!

The leaders of the free trade unions were also arrested and their organizations forced to form a new, Nazi-controlled organization.
Heavy industry and big business were left unharmed except for the removal of Jewish managers. Hitler even gave leading industrialists positions of power in his government and in the administration.

Industrialists were happy with the Nazis: they had destroyed the socialist parties and tamed the trade unions.


Next up for our fascinating seminar on “Free’s Wild Eyed Revisionist History”, The “Obama/Democrat party’s pro-slavery Civil War”.
Stay tuned for more of Free’s Fact Free Fun!

Dave Dubya said...

Interesting. Google "edited out" my list of corporate collaborators.

Let's see if this posts:

Kodak, Hugo Boss, Volkswagen, Bayer, Siemens, Coca-Cola, (Fanta) Ford, Standard Oil, Chase bank, IBM, and Random House publishing.

And being “Good Republicans”, some of these corporations profited from both sides.

free0352 said...

Kulkuri

What the hell is wrong with getting turned into Finland.

Because not everyone wants to live in the system Finland has. I like the system this country has. If you enjoy Finland, I'm sure you can immigrate there. Or any number of other countries that have socialist economic systems for that matter.

Dave,

North Korea as a democratic republic.

There you go again. I never suggested NK was a socialist country. Its using the Communist model. Communism is when not only the means of production are controlled by the state, but there isn't even private property. Earlier I mentioned China as a country which is socialist, and it is. You can own private property in China. You can't in Cuba or NK - meaning they use a Communist system.

Again, did you fall asleep in comparative government? And by the way, you could own private property in Nazi Germany - making it a socialist system.

Perhaps one indication of why I say Free has an authoritarian personality is because he believes what authoritarians, from Hitler

Hitler did lay it our in Mien Kamph. Everything from the final solution to a socialist economy. He followed that roadmap right to the destruction of Germany. Hitler told many lies, but not about his hatred of Capitalism or Jews.

Here’s a good starter list of the Nazis’ corporate collaboratorsHitler hated capitalists ...

You didn't give on name. I want to know, who specifically benefited. What person left business and became part of the Nazi elite? From what I can tell from reading history, the heads of German business were just as brutalized by the Nazi regime as any other German. Hitler didn't care if you owned a business, he hated business. He saw the Nazi political elite as above them. Hitler first and foremost was an artist you know.

Which made them the government leaders who merged with the corporate leaders to implement fascism

Again, if you mean by "merged" as forced, threatened and killed business owners in order to "merge" then you have a point. Business "merged" with the Third Reich the same way France and Poland did.

The leaders of the free trade unions were also arrested and their organizations forced to form a new, Nazi-controlled organization.

Exactly. The members of business were arrested or intimidated and forced to comply with the Nazi Party line. What was that line? Jew killing and war production. If you were an executive with a German company in 1943 and you decided to make something other than the artillery shells -or whatever- the Nazis told you to make, you went to Dachau. If you sold to a Jew, you went to Dachau. If you complained to others about it, even in secret, you went to Dachau. Hitler "merged" with business the same way he "merged" with unions.

But its funny how you can "get it" about German unions but "German Business" you don't. Both were victims of National Socialism.

National Socialism is what can happen when a state with a powerful socialist economy is taken over by the wrong type of people. In this case, the Nazis. This has not happened in Finland, and I hope it never does. Of course if it did, the Finns would be in a whole lot of trouble because their government has a lot of power to use against them.

As for Nazis being "Good Republicans," the German version of the GOP was and is the Christian Democratic Union or CDU. Its still around today, Chancellor Merkel is in the CDU. It is one of Germany's oldest parties, and its operated in Germany for a long time. In fact its only break in operations, was when Hitler outlawed it in 1937 and imprisoned its party leaders.

So try again with that meme.












Dave Dubya said...

You didn't give on name. I want to know, who specifically benefited.

Henry Ford was one name. Prescott Bush was another. Someone is not paying attention, again. You want the names of every corporate profiteer from Nazism?

We don’t have room nor time for all of them.

Fascism is not socialism, socialism is not fascism. Only authoritarians and fascists would want someone to believe that.

Before we show the comedy of errors that is Free’s version of Civil War history, let’s look at these items.

As I said, we don’t see them funding rallies to end the drug war or surveillance state, do we?

Actually their main PAC, Freedom Works has done both, as has CATO Institute who they also heavily donate to. Try again.

No, we still don’t see them. You need to try again and show us those Tea Party rallies to end the drug war and surveillance state.

From Wiki:
FreedomWorks originated from a Koch-funded conservative political group called Citizens for a Sound Economy, which in 2004 split into Americans for Prosperity, led by President Nancy Pfotenhauer, and a remainder group which merged with Empower America and was renamed FreedomWorks,
FreedomWorks is closely tied to its founder, corporate lobbyist and former Republican Congressman Dick Armey, whose former lobbying firm DLA Piper from which he resigned in August 2009, represents Bristol Myers Squibb, among other pharmaceutical companies


Yeah, show us those anti-drug war rallies sponsored by Bristol Myers Squibb. LOL!

Try again.

Where are the Barons, the Dukes, the Counts? Apparently you have wealth and actual aristocracy confused.

Just take away the titles and you have the same thing. Kochs, Bushes, Murdochs, etc, are the American version of an aristocracy. It is wealth and political power that define them. They have it. Most of us don’t. Just like the old European aristocracy. You are their tool.

Dave Dubya said...

Both (Unions and corporations) were victims of National Socialism.

One more than others. See the list (And names) above.

That's not what you said earlier. "He instituted massive public works projects full of union members".

Dave Dubya said...

And by the way, you could own private property in Nazi Germany - making it a socialist system.

Or a capitalist system.

Dave Dubya said...



Me: “History tells us the American Civil War was started by conservative, wealthy Southern aristocrats”

Free: And what party were they members of? What party fought for segregation then, now and forever barely a generation ago? What party today creates a dependent welfare class of reliable voters? The answer is the Democrat Party, easily the most destructive force in American history. They should have banned it along with its old militant wing... the KKK.


Thanks, Rush. Good thing there is no “Democrat Party”. I bet the KKK lined up to vote for Obama, right?

Oh, you mean "Dixiecrats" aka today's Republicans.

What party today creates a dependent welfare class

No party did. The under and unemployed are a symptom of capitalism’s failure to provide jobs.

They should have banned

Thanks, again, Rush, for supporting my point that the radical Right wants a one-party dictatorship.

Dave Dubya said...

Now for some factual “Free-free” history:

As we know, “History tells us the American Civil War was started by conservative, wealthy Southern aristocrats”. Yes Southern aristocrats, not titled Europeans. You all know who I mean, Slave owners if you prefer.

So what kind of Democrats were they? They were so different from Northern Democrats they ran a separate candidate for president. A party divided, until the Republican Southern Strategy claimed the Dixiecrats as their own.

The Democratic Party has changed significantly during its more than two centuries of existence. During the 19th century the party supported or tolerated slavery, and it opposed civil rights reforms after the Civil War in order to retain the support of Southern voters. By the mid-20th century it had undergone a dramatic ideological realignment and reinvented itself as a party supporting organized labour, the civil rights of minorities, and progressive reform. Since President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal of the 1930s, the party has also tended to favour greater government intervention in the economy and to oppose government intervention in the private, noneconomic affairs of citizens.

From 1828 to 1856 the Democrats won all but two presidential elections (1840 and 1848). During the 1840s and ’50s, however, the Democratic Party, as it officially named itself in 1844, suffered serious internal strains over the issue of extending slavery to the Western territories. Southern Democrats, led by Jefferson Davis, wanted to allow slavery in all the territories, while Northern Democrats, led by Stephen A. Douglas, proposed that each territory should decide the question for itself through referendum. The issue split the Democrats at their 1860 presidential convention, where Southern Democrats nominated John C. Breckinridge and Northern Democrats nominated Douglas.


Free wants us to think those conservative, wealthy Southern slave owners are the same folks as modern Democrats. Yeah just like fascism is socialism. Ignorance is strength, freedom is slavery and war is peace.

free0352 said...

Henry Ford was one name. Prescott Bush was another

I wasn't aware Henry Ford or Prescott Bush were German citizens.

As for Ford, between 1941 and 1945 how many war implements were manufactured for the purposes of defeating the Nazi regime in Ford factories? Can that even be calculated? Be that as it may, Henry Ford was a dyed in the wool antisemitic and fan of eugenics - which is why Ford initially supported Hitler. Ford eventually changed his mind on Hitler - not eugenics or antisemitism. But lets grant your premise. As rich as he was... America never became a Nazi country. Kinda casts some doubt as to this idea that the evil rich in this country control much of anything. In fact, the only American to put American citizens into concentration camps during the 1940s was... your favorite President FDR.

Fascism is not socialism, socialism is not fascism

Thats true. Fascism is a political system, Socialism is an economic system. You can have Fascism and capitalism believe it or not. Chile did so under Pinochet's government. You can also have Fascism and Socialism - such as in Germany under Hitler. Socialism, Mercantilism, Capitalism - they are just ways of running an economy. Fascism, Republicanism, Monarchy, Parliamentary, and Representative Democracy are ways of running the government of a country. A country's economy and its government are not the same thing... unless you live in a Communist country - where daily life is so governed by the state that really nothing isn't state controlled. National Socialism has much more in common with a Communist Dictatorship than a Capitalist Republic like ours. The Libertarian Ideal is for as little government control as possible with its purpose being national defense and prevention of Anarchy. Hitler would have recoiled in horror at the Libertarian ideal. And for that matter, so would Joseph Stalin. Thats because both required a powerful government to enforce their rule. Libertarianism is the direct opposite of Fascism and National Socialism. It contends that government should be small, intrusive, and limited by law.

Yeah, show us those anti-drug war rallies

Freedom Works was supportive of recent legislation to legalize pot in Colorado and California and does not support drug criminalization. It has given money to numerous politicians two examples of which are Justin Amash and Rand Paul - both of whom are against the drug war and NSA spying. Both Koch brothers are self avowed libertarians who support the Libertarian Party platform, which specifically mentions ending the Drug War and NSA domestic spying. CATO has authored numerous papers against both.

But keep trying.

It is wealth and political power that define them. They have it. Most of us don’t. Just like the old European aristocracy. You are their tool.

Exactly how many political offices have these people you mention inherited via hereditary title? There is no American Nobility. Sorry. People elected members of the Bush family. They could have chosen otherwise. They didn't. Sounds to me you're upset your candidate of choice wasn't elected, and now you're seeking to hobble and exclude those who beat your boys in a free and fair election. Which is of course, what Hitler did.
















free0352 said...

So what kind of Democrats were they? They were so different from Northern Democrats they ran a separate candidate for president

Ah yes, George Wallace. And who did George Wallace endorse for President in the 1976 election? Your second favorite President - Jimmy Carter. Some change.

Dave Dubya said...

Free “One Name”

DD: “Henry Ford was one name. Prescott Bush was another. Someone is not paying attention, again. You want the names of every corporate profiteer from Nazism?

We don’t have room or time for all of them.”

Free: I wasn't aware Henry Ford or Prescott Bush were German citizens.

Really??? THAT is relevant to the question? And not “room or time” to list every corporate profiteer from Nazism?

Ford was an equal opportunity war profiteer until he couldn’t be one. Same with American Economic Aristocrat Prescott Bush.

Ford could have keeled over dead, or joined the Nazis, His factories were “socialized” for our nation’s defense. We didn’t need him. We need Americans working together.

There is no American Nobility, but there are the Kochs and Bushes and Murdochs and Adelsons, etc. and most of all, their money. It buys and sells politicians. They embody the corruption of our nation’s government and they will see it fail our citizens in order to profit. That, I promise, is the bottom line.

Your “Libertarianism” is the tool of corporatism. The Kochs own the Tea Party and thus the GOP.
Nine of the 12 new Republicans on the panel signed a pledge distributed by a Koch-founded advocacy group — Americans for Prosperity — to oppose the Obama administration's proposal to regulate greenhouse gases. Of the six GOP freshman lawmakers on the panel, five benefited from the group's separate advertising and grass-roots activity during the 2010 campaign.

I think Boehner is getting his instructions from them today.
“A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Planning”

The billionaire Koch brothers, Charles and David, have been deeply involved with financing the overall effort.

There’s your Koch “Libertarianism”. They are buying and bribing an anti-democratic rule by the economic elite minority. Corporatist Fascism, to be redundant.

And you are their tool
So why can’t you show us those anti-drug war, and anti-Patriot Act rallies?

Try again. What has your “libertarian” corporatist boys really done?

Dick “Freedom Works” Armey did squat, other than lobby for Bristol Myers Squibb, among other pharmaceutical companies.

The best anti drug war tool we have is democracy. We the people have voted repeatedly for sane changes in public drug policy.

Your “libertarian” heroes are working to suppress democracy.

What has your “libertarian” corporatist boys really done? They bought the Republican Party. Democracy is in their sights.

Democracy is antithetical to the merging of corporate and government leadership and must be suppressed and neutralized, it not outright eradicated.

You’re way more fascist than you’ll ever see yourself. You remind of an SS trooper believing in the purity of his cause because Russians are the true enemy.

And that is how the fascistic forces against democracy indoctrinate their useful idiots. Make scapegoats of socialists, Liberals, college professors, and unions. Call them all commies.

I don’t know why you’re not joyful at the nation’s imminent credit default, or worse. Thanks to your heroes, your side is winning.

Sieg Heil, mein Freund, Democracy will be crushed and the government will be controlled by the elites.

A “libertarian” dream come true.

A better descriptor of what we have is "inverted totalitarianism".

Wallace? "I am an Alabama Democrat, not a national Democrat. I’m not kin to those folks. The difference between a national Democrat and an Alabama Democrat is like the difference between a Communist and a non-Communist."

That's all ya got now?

free0352 said...

“Henry Ford was one name. Prescott Bush was another.

Henry Ford and Prescott Bush did not live under the Nazi system. They lived in America. Name a German.

What has your “libertarian” corporatist boys really done?

Right now it would seem the most headline grabbing is trying to end ObamaCare - a program you said was nothing but a giant give-away to insurance companies. Kinda funny how they're all about this corporate greed and yet they are spending billions to end a corporate give away.

You’re way more fascist than you’ll ever see yourself. You remind of an SS trooper believing in the purity of his cause because Russians are the true enemy

I think you're closer, as A: You actually work in a prison where most of the inmates are likely there for the drug war you're complaining about. Pot meet kettle on that issue. You likely wouldn't have a job without it. Part of why I quit law enforcement was the drug war - put your money where your mouth is like I did or shut up yourself because you aren't serious. B: You argue here and elsewhere that the state should silence opposition you don't like. Examples on this post are Freedom Works and Americans for Prosperity. C: You advocate great state control of... well everything. I've yet to hear you once argue the government shouldn't do something with the exception of NSA spying... however you refuse to support politicians like Justin Amash and Rand Paul who are actually trying to end it while you defend Liberal Politicians like Al Franken who are for it. Again, pot meet kettle.

In fact some of your arguments sound a lot like Hitler's

Society's needs come before the individual's needs. A new community is being built in Germany and it is our most beautiful goal and aim. Those who can not see past their own nose deserve our pity more than anything else. It is the luck to help which rewards those who commit themselves to this socialist state, and this commitment must happen every new winter. Our social welfare system is so much more than just charity because we do not say to the rich people "Please, give something to the poor." Instead we say "German people, help yourself!" Everyone must help, whether you are rich or poor. Everyone must have the belief that there's always someone in a much worse situation than I am, and this person I want to help as a comrade. If one should say, "Yes, but do I have to sacrifice a lot?" That is the glory of giving! When you sacrifice for your community, then you can walk with your head held up high.

-Hitler

Sounds downright progressive.

free0352 said...

We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.

-Hitler

Sounds Progressive to me! Sounds like the post you just made!

Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?

-Hitler

As socialists, we are opponents of the Jews, because we see, in the Hebrews, the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nation’s goods.

-Joseph Goebbles

We ask that government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the wealthy must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within the confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand an end to the power of financial interest. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious German the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our system of public education…. We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents…. The government must undertake the improvement of public health — by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor — by the greatest possible support for all groups concerned with the physical education of youth. [W]e combat the … materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of The Common Good Before the Individual Good.

- From the political program of the Nazi Party, adopted in Munich, February 24, 1920

Dave Dubya said...

You likely wouldn't have a job without it.

I had the job since before Reagan and the “Just say no” drug war hysteria took off. Turns out there are still real criminals, and their corporate enablers. Drug, Alcohol and Tobacco corporations are big drug war fans. They have the entire GOP in their pocket and at least half the dems.

You advocate great state control of... well everything. BS. NEVER said so. See above example. Private prisons are still being resisted by we the people and pushed by Republicans.

You argue here and elsewhere that the state should silence opposition you don't like. Examples on this post are Freedom Works and Americans for Prosperity.

Wrong. Completely wrong, in fact. I want both corporate and union money out of our elections and government. Your straw man is showing. Or is “opposition” really your word for corruption? Yes we need to end that. Freedom Works and Americans for Prosperity are the corrupting influence of corporatism in open conflict with democracy. If anything, THEY are silencing, at the least shouting down, the will of the people. THEY control the party that had less votes than their opposition, yet controls the House. Sorta like how Hitler took power. The magic of the power of a few elites.

The majority of American voters are the ones “silenced”. They will always be silenced by the roar of corporate money compared to the whispers of voters.

Money talks and democracy withers. You are their tool.

You think corruption is free speech and Hitler was not a fascist. Both are absurd.

Henry Ford and Prescott Bush did not live under the Nazi system, but they profited from it, didn't they? Just like the list I showed you. Elite Germans did too, like Thyssen and Krupp. There are more, many more. My point stands.

My, you quote Hitler like a storm trooper, who actually believes his words. On top of that, you don’t think he was a fascist.

however you refuse to support politicians like Justin Amash and Rand Paul who are actually trying to end it

All they are actively ending are unions and democracy, with Koch money. They are corporatists suppressing democracy. Amash is just another anti-union, drug war Republican, bought by the Kochs and working with Snyder to undermine Michigan voters’ Medical Marijuana law.

Wake up. Why do you believe Republicans? Oh, you believe Hitler too. Never mind.

free0352 said...

I had the job since before Reagan and the “Just say no” drug war hysteria took off

Nixon started the drug war Dave; everybody knows that. So how you liking those drug war dollars? Now whose the tool really?

Private prisons are still being resisted by we the people and pushed by Republicans.

The only reason you're likely against private prisons is it fucks with your pension plan.

I want both corporate and union money out of our elections and government.

They aren't part of government. They lobby, hold rallies and make TV commercials. You know, 1st Amendment type stuff. So who do you think you're fooling?

. Freedom Works and Americans for Prosperity are the corrupting influence

Yes, they're so "corrupting" when they throw tea party rallies. You know, that whole right to assemble thing. Better put a stop to that. Hitler did, and he also claimed he had the will of the people behind him. In fact... he actually had the will of the majority of the German people behind him. I don't care. I don't give a rip about public opinion one way or another. I want a constitutional republic that respects individual rights over collective rights.

The majority of American voters are the ones “silenced”

Really? Please post a list of the Americans you think are silenced?

My, you quote Hitler like a storm trooper, who actually believes his words. On top of that, you don’t think he was a fascist.

Sure, I studied Hitler. I even lived and studied Nazism in Germany. So yes, I'm very familiar with the history. You obviously, are not. Hitler wasn't a fascist, hell... he wasn't even Italian. Hitler was a National Socialist. You betray your ignorance when you can't compare and contrast Mussolini's Fascism with National Socialism. He betrays a poor high school education.

All they are actively ending are unions and democracy

By giving people a choice beyond "democratic" socialism and the choice to join a union and pay dues or not? All this freedom sure gets in the way of your authoritarian worldview. I know you've been bossing the prisoners around for 30 years so it might come as a shock, but in regular America people like to choose for themselves.


















Dave Dubya said...

people like to choose for themselves

By “people” you don’t mean women, right? But you do mean the ones who accepted union jobs, in union workplaces right?

Your contention, against all historians, is Hitler was not a fascist but a socialist. You know of any historian, book or reason why that is your belief? Other than you being a true believer of Hitler, that is.

You’d better educate those at the Jewish Virtual Library that I quoted. They seem to also disagree with you about Hitler. But what do those silly Jews know about Hitler that you, a true believer, do not?

I want a constitutional republic that respects individual rights over collective rights.

LOL! We know how you support collective rights of corporate free speech. Now the entire House listens to only the elite few. Watch next how the Kochs and banksters tell their Party to settle down. Their tantrum is disturbing the markets and cutting into their profits.

DD: The majority of American voters are the ones “silenced”
Free: Really? Please post a list of the Americans you think are silenced?

I did. I told you the House represents the elite few despite the fact way more Americans voted for Democratic representation. The voice of the majority of voters is silenced. The Kochs own them.

Pay attention so I don’t have to repeat. If not, I may just have to ignore you.

You’re lucky I take the time to educate you. Too bad you reject everything due your belief that you know everything.

Now pay attention:

A Brief History of the Drug War

On June 1971, President Nixon declared a “war on drugs.” He dramatically increased the size and presence of federal drug control agencies, and pushed through measures such as mandatory sentencing and no-knock warrants.

Between 1973 and 1977, however, eleven states decriminalized marijuana possession.

The presidency of Ronald Reagan marked the start of a long period of skyrocketing rates of incarceration, largely thanks to his unprecedented expansion of the drug war. The number of people behind bars for nonviolent drug law offenses increased from 50,000 in 1980 to over 400,000 by 1997.


Get the picture? Look carefully at the numbers.

Did you look? Look again. See anything there that makes my point? Probably not. Better change the subject again, and say they were not Germans, or something just as ridiculous.

Do you still think you know more than I do about this matter? Of course, You just happen to an expert on everything. Tough job, but someone’s got to do it, eh?

Bet Reagan is your hero too. And Hitler was a fascist. So was Mussolini, so was Franco. They were buddies. They didn’t give a crap about the sick, poor and elderly, like real socialists. Sorta like Reagan, come to think of it. He was howling about the death of freedom over Medicare. You guys are SOOO reactionary. Very delicate sensibilities for such tough guys.

Republicans are now nothing more than democracy suppressing fascists, barely restrained by our Constitution. They are holding the peoples’ government hostage to their demands. Demands without concessions. That is also how Hitler operated before he started his war.

I guess emulating Hitler’s style makes Republicans “socialists” too. Whatcha gonna do about that? Call the Kochs? LOL!

free0352 said...

Your contention, against all historians, is Hitler was not a fascist but a socialist. You know of any historian, book or reason why that is your belief?

Really? Which ones? Italian Fascism was about restoring the Roman Empire. That was Duce's shtick. Last I checked, Rome dominated Germania during the Empire. I highly doubt Hitler was on board with subjugating Germany to Mussolini in a 20th century Roman Empire.

By 1943, Mussolini had begged Hitler to make a separate peace with Stalin and send German troops to the west to guard against an expected Allied invasion of Italy. Within a few days of the Allied landings on Sicily in July 1943, it was obvious Mussolini's army was on the brink of collapse. This led Hitler to summon Mussolini to a meeting in northern Italy on 19 July 1943 where Hitler defact took over Italy. By this time, Mussolini was so shaken from fear of Hitler that he was having a nervous breakdown.

Some prominent members of Mussolini's government had turned against him by this point. Among them were Grandi and Ciano. With several of his colleagues close to revolt, Mussolini was forced to summon the Grand Council of Fascism on 24 July 1943. When Mussolini announced that the Germans were thinking of evacuating the south, Grandi moved a resolution asking the king to resume his full constitutional powers, in effect, a vote of no confidence in Mussolini. This motion carried by a 19–7 margin. This effectively voted Mussolini out of office. Can you see that going over with Hitler under National Socialism?

That afternoon, Mussolini was summoned to the royal palace by King Victor Emmanuel III, who had been planning to oust Mussolini for months. When Mussolini tried to tell the king about the meeting, Victor Emmanuel cut him off and told him that he was being replaced by Marshal Pietro Badoglio. Can you see the Kaiser telling Hitler he was ousted?

After Mussolini left the palace, he was arrested by Carabinieri on the king's orders. Can you picture the exiled Kaiser firing Hitler and arresting him?

The system of Facsism and National Socialism are starting to look less and less similar are they not?

Italian discontent with Mussolini was such that when the news of his downfall was announced on the radio, there was no resistance. In an effort to conceal his location from the Germans, Mussolini was moved around the country before being sent to Campo Imperatore, a mountain resort in Abruzzo where he was completely isolated to prevent his assassination at the hands of Hitler. Given the large Nazi presence in Italy, Badoglio announced that "the war continues at the side of our Germanic ally" in the hopes that chaos and Nazi retaliation against civilians could be avoided. Even as Badoglio was keeping up the appearance of loyalty to the Axis, he dissolved the Fascist Party two days after taking over. Also, his government was negotiating an Armistice with the Allies, which was signed on 3 September 1943. Its announcement five days later threw Italy into chaos, a civil war of sorts. Badoglio and the king fled Rome, leaving the Italian Army without orders. Immediately after the Italian surrender was announced, Hitler's troops started taking over the Italian Peninsula by force as part of Operation Achse and occupied Rome on 10 September. In retaliation, Italy declared war on Nazi Germany on 13 October 1943 from Malta; thousands of troops fought the Germans. The Badoglio government held a social truce with the Italian communist party for the sake of Italy and to rid the land of the Nazis.

free0352 said...

So lets review. Can we imagine a history where the Kaiser who was living in exile in the Netherlands would come back to Germany and along with the legislature fire Hitler? Of course not. You're going to tell me, with a strait face - that Hitler emulated this system? That's laughable. There was not electoral authority or monarch in Germany because Hitler got rid of it. National Socialism was One Fuhrer, One Nation, One People. That was their slogan and that's how the National Socialists did business.

Were the Fascists and Nazis were indeed allies at one point, but the systems were so incompatible with each other they finally ended up gong to war with one another. You're really going to tell me the two are nigh interchangeable? Was Nazism interchangeable with Soviet Communism when Russia and Germany signed a nonaggression pact and jointly invaded Poland too?

You're pretty painfully ignorant of history Dave. Buy some books and read them on break.

free0352 said...

Look carefully at the numbers.

I didn't claim that Reagan didn't escalate the drug war. I simply stated it began under Richard Nixon and you've been reaping the paychecks ever since. Pot meet kettle. If you're so against that drug war, you can always quit your job like I did. Yeah... didn't think so.

And Hitler was a fascist. So was Mussolini, so was Franco. They were buddies.

Franco and Mussolini were Fascist. Hitler was a National Socialist. They were all such good friends that Franco didn't aid the Axis in WWII and Italy eventually declared war on their old ally. Some friends. Italy went along with Germany till 1943 because firstly it bet on the wrong horse and secondly they were more scared of Hitler than they were the rest of Europe. And they had good reason. Without the entry of the US the Germans would have likely won the war.

You guys are SOOO reactionary

You're hilarious. You're running around trying to get the CFO from Widget Inc while the government eats up more and more of the GDP every year. Want to see the real threat to workers, government is who is taking away their production with confiscatory taxation and run-away monetary policy.







Dave Dubya said...

National Socialism was the German form of Fascism. Socialism is not nationalism. Fascism requires belligerent nationalism. Like modern Republicans.

And I told you, "I had the job since before Reagan and the “Just say no” drug war hysteria took off".

This is correct no matter how much you hold your breath and pout.

I didn't work with any inmates in for simple cannabis possession. They were held and extorted by local law enforcement. Mostly Republicans.

I oppose them because they act like fascists.

Go ahead and link me to the drug war if you need to. By the same standard you are guilty of enabling Bush/Cheney war crimes.

You are still a true believer in Cheney and Hitler. I don't believe the liars and war criminals.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Dave Dubya [addressed to Free0352]: "By the same standard you are guilty of enabling Bush/Cheney war crimes."

I've been reading Free0352's amusing account comparing fascism and communism. It's obvious that libertarianism, believing in a totally unregulated laissez-faire marketplace, must also believe in stealing other's work unless it's nailed-down or locked-up.

We all have known, for a very long time, that Free0352 is a tool of the elite and the Powers That Be. He's also prone to lying and stealing, apparently.

Dave Dubya said...

“The war we are fighting until victory or the bitter end is in its deepest sense and war between Christ and Marx.” - Joseph Goebbels

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life." - Adolph Hitler

Look, Nazis weren't fascists after all, they were Christians. They said so. They’d never lie, or deceptively brand their ideology, right?

"Naturally the common people don't want war...but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." -Hermann Goring

Why does this quote sound just like Cheney?

Poor Hermann needed a lecture from Free. Since they were at war with democracy, parliamentary government and a communist dictatorship, he seemed to think he was in a fascist dictatorship.

to see the real threat to workers, government is who is taking away their production with confiscatory taxation and run-away monetary policy.

Runaway corporatism, Big Money buying our politicians and elections, not taxation and monetary policy did it. Off shoring jobs to third world wages is the corporatist threat to American workers. That and taking over our government.

One question.

Who is represented more in the House of Representatives, the majority of Americans who voted for a democrat representative, or the Koch Brothers?

Enemies of democracy go by many names, National Socialists, fascists, Communists, Republicans, and “libertarians”. They all suppress democracy and seek control of government. They all want power over the will of the people.

The general welfare and public interests are to be crushed by their limitless greed and authoritarian nature.

That question again:

Who is represented more in the House of Representatives, the majority of Americans who voted for a democrat representative, or the Koch Brothers?

free0352 said...

Look, Nazis weren't fascists after all, they were Christians. They said so. They’d never lie, or deceptively brand their ideology, right?

I'm sure many Nazis believed they were doing the lord's work. Religion has poisoned the minds of many people throughout history - and in the case of Germany, German antisemitism can be traced back to Martin Luther's many attacks on the Jews.

Of course being an atheist, I don't think anyone does the lords work. But I think the Nazis who were Christians thought they were doing so by wiping out the Christ killers - which is how they saw Jews.

Who is represented more in the House of Representatives, the majority of Americans who voted for a democrat representative, or the Koch Brothers?

Congressmen represent those elected in their districts, and when my Congressman voted against the latest budget CR he was certainly representing my very GOP dominated district. We were quite proud he grew some balls. He's let us down in the past and we likely would have primary challenged him had he not done what we've asked him to do for four years.

free0352 said...

As for libertarians wanting power over people. Sure. Its a conspiracy to take over the government through free and fair elections in order to reduce the number of laws, implement a less interventionist foreign policy, enforce rule of law, and craft government that will leave you alone and let you keep more of your paycheck at the end of the month. :)

Dave Dubya said...

The Nazis wrapped their fascism in Christianity, like the Right of today. They lied about socialism and Christianity. Have you corrected those at the Jewish Virtual Library yet?

He's let us down in the past and we likely would have primary challenged him had he not done what we've asked him to do for four years.

“We” as is the Koch’s threatening to primary him and other state reps if they didn’t do as they say. The Koch’s demanded the MI GOP attack unions. Neither Snyder nor the candidates ran on that issue. They danced to the Koch’s fiddle. This is all on record. The Koch cartel even hosted you in their tent.

Its a conspiracy to take over the government through free and fair elections.

By “free and fair elections” you mean corruption by money after elections that never mentioned the agenda. See MI example. Power, along with money, corrupts.

The entire House of Representatives dance to the Koch’s fiddle, the Koch’s are only in it for their interests in greed and power, public be damned.

free0352 said...

“We” as is the Koch’s threatening to primary him and other state reps if they didn’t do as they say.

I'm sure the voters of my very Republican district would love help in raising a candidate who better reflects our values. However in this case it isn't necessary, our Congressman has so far been doing his job. Should he fail, candidates need donors as elections aren't free.

By “free and fair elections” you mean corruption by money after elections that never mentioned the agenda

Really? How is that done exactly? You don't mean groups buying TV air time and through their fist amendment rights airing commercials on behalf of candidates do you? Because that surely sounds like what you mean, and that would mean you'd like government to control political speech. Hardly a civil libertarian view.

Koch’s are only in it for their interests in greed and power, public be damned.

I highly doubt the Koch brothers are responsible for the sum total of lobbying to the GOP, but if they are I'd like to shake their hands for getting the GOP on track. Perhaps I'm not their tool as you say, perhaps they are mine.

Either way, enjoy that drug war paycheck on the 15th.



free0352 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
free0352 said...

They lied about socialism and Christianity

Say's who? There are whole Christian Churches based around the concept of "white power." Do you claim to be the final arbiter of what "real" Christianity is? I'm sure the Nazis believed as many claimed in their personal journals; that National Socialism was rooted in Christian Values and the holocaust was simply a modern incarnation of the inquisition.

But before you try to play arbiter on "real" Christianity - I'll actually stop you right there... I don't care if the Nazi brand of faith was less valid than the popular one these days. I'd be perfectly happy if Christianity in all its forms was simply left to the dustbin of history. That goes for Jewish faith too. I think we've covered rather thoroughly in past posts my rejection of religion and belief in the supernatural.

However, being a very tolerant person I'd rather people choose that instead of feeding them into the ovens, the way the Nazis and Communists did. Everybody has a right to their life so long as they don't threaten others. Even if I disagree with their superstitions. If only you were as tolerant of people who ascribe to political philosophy counter to your own. I've noticed a marked uptick in your usual over the top bloviating since Congress refused to ratify the latest budget CR. Your support for the Democrat Elite is showing again - no matter how hard you deny it. Sure you didn't vote for Obama? If ObamaCare is just a huge give-away to insurance companies like you told me - why don't you support Congress trying to gut it?

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Free0352: "If ObamaCare is just a huge give-away to insurance companies like you told me - why don't you support Congress trying to gut it?"

Because as bad as it is, it's still better than what we've had -- which is all that the conservatives apparently have to offer.

The whole framework and blueprint of the ACA was originally conceived by the right-wing. Now, once Obama and the Democrats made it their own, they're against it. Enough so, it seems, to drive the country into default.

free0352 said...

Now, once Obama and the Democrats made it their own,

Yup Mitt Romney among others. One of the reasons I didn't vote for him. So now Democrats are for it and its a good idea when they were against it when it was a GOP idea? Democrats are more guilty of the partisanship you're trying to put on the GOP by your own logic. How many bad ideas from Republicans do you plan on defending today.

Dave Dubya said...


JG,
“...Now, once Obama and the Democrats made it their own, they're against it.”


ACA More Popular than "Obamacare" with Republicans

Republican support of President Obama’s healthcare legislation rose by eight percentage points when identified as the Affordable Care Act instead of “Obamacare,” a new Fox News poll has found.

Thank you, FOX(R).

Dave Dubya said...

Free,

Thanks for admitting the Koch’s control the House. This is corporatocracy under the power of collective rights. “Hardly a civil libertarian view”, indeed.

The truth is MOST Americans are not in your Tea Cult. MOST Americans voted for democratic representation. And MOST Americans don’t want Obamacare repealed.

The powers against democracy are corrupting our government to bend it to the will of the radical and elite minority, and their racist backers.

And yes there is racism against Obama. And yes they are part of that minority.

DD: “They (Nazis) lied about socialism and Christianity”

Free: Say's who?

Says everyone who knows the Nazis lied and acted contrary to their lies. But you are a true believer, aren’t you?

Christian Churches based around the concept of "white power." are racist cults. So were the Nazis. It’s not complicated. The Tea Cult is also similar in its racist, anti-democracy core. Bet you $10,000 there’s some overlap in membership with those racist churches and supporters of the tea cult. Note again the FOX(R) poll above.

you'd like government to control political speech

Not a bit. Like any real civil libertarian I support individual rights and I oppose collective rights.

I'd like to shake their hands (Kochs) for getting the GOP on track.

On track to overturn democracy.

Say, you still haven’t shown us any Tea Party rallies against torture, war of aggression, warrantless surveillance and the drug war.

What’s up with that?

The Black guy and their former healthcare policy seem to be the only targets.

They will shut down the government and perhaps even send us into default if their demands are not met.

Yeah, speaking of supporters of bad ideas by Republicans, look into a mirror.

Where’s that passion against war of aggression, warrantless surveillance and the drug war?

Not there. Too much “libertarian” aka corporate profit and white conservative support, I guess.

Wonder why the healthcare system named for a Black guy is such a priority? Hmmm.

I have a feeling the Kochs will be telling the House to back off their extortion as the shutdown and default cut into their profits.

If ObamaCare is just a huge give-away to insurance companies like you told me - why don't you support Congress trying to gut it?

I most certainly would if there was a better plan to replace it. Your corporatocracy was successful in keeping the best ideas off the table.

Give a sane and compassionate alternative healthcare plan, and I’m all for taking Obamacare out.

Billions of healthcare dollars into CEO pockets do nothing for sick people.

So tell us the Tea Cult’s sane and compassionate health care alternative.
Healthcare is the “tyranny” they oppose, democracy be damned.. The drug war, survelllance state and militarism...meh.

“Libertarian” Ha, what a joke, a lie, and pure Corporatism.

So what is the Koch’s “Dictatorship by Minority Plan for Americans healthcare”?

“Stop the Black guy” isn’t enough.

free0352 said...

Well just got in. Had a long 15 hour drive. Had to go to DC last night and help move a fence today.

I'm tired, so I'll recap the usual predictable bullshit right quick. Tea Party and Libertarians are racist, you're racist free, race card in general, Kochs are sith lords who control the world and you are their willing slave. Sound bout right?

Okay, to recap. Was definitely at a veterans/teaparty rally today. 1 asshole brought a confederate flag. Got told to leave, he left. Showed back up in front of White House. Got escorted down PA Ave by his ears by several vets. Cops laughed, so did we. Lots of blacks and hispanics in attendance - to include yours truly. Dork with the flag wasn't even a veteran, and was likely a lefty plant. Nuff said on that issue. Its happened before. Next, I'm not much of a white supremacist being that I'm Hispanic. Nuff said on that topic.

As for Nazis, hitler used a socialist economic system where the state controlled production, but didn't own 100% of private property like the Soviets. Get over it. Pinochet was a capitalist, you don't hear me crying about it. It doesn't really matter what econ package the Nazis were using, what matters was the war and genocide.

On to the Kochs, that shit today was way too disorganized and thrown together to be the product of any sort of professionalized machine. If only it were. Instead it was a pissed off mob of veterans who were angry about the WWII and Vietnam memorial. Decided about 10:00AM to go ahead and open up the Lincoln Memorial while we were at it. Had fun. Had a bunch of tea party types and Sarah Palin show up. Nobody gave a shit. We were too busy carting off the barricades to listen to them anyway. Heard a Congressman from my state who is an Iraq vet gave a great speech. Didn't hear any of them myself, too busy thanking Vietnam and WWII vets for their service and carrying barricades - which was the whole point. Nobody could hear a damn thing over the truckers anyway.

free0352 said...

Back to the Kochs, fund away. We need the help getting word out and leaning on wayward Reps and Senators. If those dudes were so in the Kochs or other rich GOP types... why do we have to constantly fucking force them to do stuff we want. We elected them after all, not you Democrats who voted against them. Why should they represent you, when you voted against them? They should represent us. It comes down to the election, and you lost. Get over it. Private individuals have been funding campaigns since George Washington. That's the system. Don't like it, I'm sure Cuba would take you. Enjoy that. In the mean time, fuck welfare - don't want it or need it. Fuck ObamaCare, don't want it or need it and country can't afford it. You're a hypocrite to call it a corporate give-away and then support the corporate give-away which is a dead on assessment. You're further a hypocrite for then complaining about the corporate influence you just supported and blaming corporate influence on the GOP for influence you just supported. You are not the solution, you are the problem. Don't complain about the rich people you are giving power to. We're trying to stop them, if you really gave a fuck you'd help. Double that for the NSA, which we are trying to stop and your boys are encouraging and funding. Triple that for your drug war bullshit. Only one of us is cashing a drug war paycheck in this conversation, and that's you. Till you put your money where your mouth is, blow it out your ass. I supported the Iraq war and still do. If I didn't, I wouldn't have fought in it. I'm not a bitch for a paycheck. I believed and there is nothing wrong with fighting (literally) for your beliefs. You apparently are a whore for a paycheck participating in a cause that has 7 out of 10 black men locked up for no good reason. Then you blame us for it. Seriously? How bout you can play the race card when you stop participating in a system that locks up Hispanics like me for fucking smoking weed. Till then, take your 1/303 Indian blood and get a clue.

Too sleepy and fired up to play nice. We're winning, which is why I figure you guys are so butt hurt. You'll get over it or immigrate to Finland. I don't care which. Only problem with moving to Finland for you Dave I can foresee, is they don't lock up drug addicts so you may need to get a new career.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Free0352: "Tea Party and Libertarians are racist..."

Yup, I'd say that's probably correct.


"Dork with the flag wasn't even a veteran, and was likely a lefty plant. Nuff said on that issue. Its happened before."

Sorry, but I'm positive it was a right-wing "dork". That's always a tactic of the conservative side. Planting provocateurs is a tool of the right -- like you!


"It doesn't really matter what econ package the Nazis were using, what matters was the war and genocide."

Agreed. Substitute the word "corporatist" for Nazis, and that pretty much sums up the United States today. And you support it.


"If those dudes were so in the Kochs or other rich GOP types... why do we have to constantly fucking force them to do stuff we want."

They did do what you want. The government's shutdown and you're going to force a default this week.


"Fuck ObamaCare, don't want it or need it and country can't afford it."

Actually, can't afford not to have it. Like I said, it was a corporate giveaway, but it's better than what you guys have proposed...which is nothing.

At least it's a step toward universal healthcare. That's what's needed.


"You are not the solution, you are the problem."

That's funny, I've always viewed corporate tools, like yourself, as the problem. As mentioned above, since universal healthcare was taken off the table and not even given a fair shake, the ACA is -- albeit not perfect -- a step in the right direction.

It beats the hell out of your solution which is...oh, that's right, you didn't have one.


"Don't complain about the rich people you are giving power to. We're trying to stop them, if you really gave a fuck you'd help."

Until your side denounces corporate personhood and corporatism, you're not stopping anybody. The way I see it, you're fuel for their fire.

Denounce it, like the Green Party, and I'm on board. Until then, forget it. You're just one of 'em.


"Only one of us is cashing a drug war paycheck in this conversation, and that's you."

No, it really is you.

Supporting today's military is really just a mechanism for the CIA to do their dirty work. That clandestine organization is the biggest drug dealer in the world. That means every paycheck you cashed supported their game.

You're a tool...in so many ways. The sad thing is that you haven't figured it out. (Or have you?)


"I supported the Iraq war and still do."

Of course you did. You're a tool. (After you just claimed you're trying to stop "the rich guys". Shame, shame.)


I'm not a bitch for a paycheck.

Yes you are. Your ass, high in the air, gives you away.

Whether you choose to call yourself a "bitch" or a tool, it makes no difference to me. Just let me know your preference.


"I believed and there is nothing wrong with fighting (literally) for your beliefs."

Well, yeah there is. It's when your beliefs are wrong.


"How bout you can play the race card when you stop participating in a system that locks up Hispanics like me for fucking smoking weed."

Nobody should be locked up for smoking weed. But if there were a law against stupidity, I'm certain they'd sentence you to at least eight life terms.


"We're winning, which is why I figure you guys are so butt hurt."

No, it's actually because you have no qualms about taking everybody down with you. That's not winning. It's akin to mutually assured destruction.

free0352 said...

Sorry, but I'm positive it was a right-wing "dork"

Actually it turns out he's a regular poster on Democrat Underground and he got the pictures to his favorite little lefty site as soon as the real Marines (he claimed to be a Marine, he never served) frog marched him off AP Ave.

Course Dem Underground won't admit this. Probably in on it. That's why the dick in question didn't make the national news.

Nazis, and that pretty much sums up the United States today

That's so inaccurate its actually hilarious. Only a spoiled rotten American who lives better than 99% of humanity could say something this eye rolling stupid.

"They might cut back the food stamps duuuuuude. Its basically the Third Reich maaaaan."

Dave Dubya said...

Free,

Did you thank the WWII vets for just serving? How about for defending democracy? Did you thank them for defeating fascist assholes who start wars of aggression based on lies?

Maybe you thanked them for defeating “socialism”.

LOL! Of course you didn’t. I thank them for defending democracy, and defeating fascist war mongering tyrants.

Tea Party and Libertarians are racist

Some are. They proudly held Obama the Witchdoctor signs. Racists are free to say anything they want about Obama and the Right will tolerate it. McCain was the only exception when he told a hysterical lady Obama is not Arab/Muslim. Deal with it.

Who says half Hispanics can’t be racists? Not accusing, just clarifying.

what matters was the war and genocide Yes, the Nazi fascism.

If those dudes were so in the Kochs or other rich GOP types... why do we have to constantly fucking force them to do stuff we want.

Depends on who “we” are, doesn't it? The Kochs intimidate and threaten to “primary” those who are not in compliance. This is how Michigan Republicans blind-sided the public with their anti-union law.

It comes down to the election, and you lost. Get over it.

Yeah, except Obama won, the Dems won the Senate and more Americans voted for Democratic representation.

The Tea Cult can’t get over it, so they extort and hold the government hostage to their demands.

That's the system...

Well then, there’s no reason to change anything, right?

Dave Dubya said...

Well then, there’s no reason to change anything, right?

Amash and Conyers were bucking the system of corporate/NSA surveillance. What happened?

Let’s check the House votes, shall we?

House Amash Amendment:

Republican 94 Y - 134 N
Democrats 111 Y - 83 N

Looks like your House needs cleaning.

Better prioritize and attack the healthcare system. “That's the system” doesn't matter on the most serious threat of tyranny we've ever seen...well, it has Obama's name anyway. We get it.

How about the drug war ?

A bipartisan group of Congress members are proposing legislation to bridge the gap between the federal prohibition against medical marijuana and state-level laws that allow it. Under HR 6134, individuals who are using marijuana for medical purposes in accordance with their state’s laws will be better able to defend themselves against federal law. The bill also makes it more difficult for the federal government to seize and destroy marijuana paraphernalia. A coalition of 16 House Democrats and 3 House Republicans — including Reps. Ron Paul (R-TX), Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA), and Justin Amash (R-MI) — have signed on to support the legislation.

16 Dems, 3 Republicans. Again the party of lesser votes controlling the House is the problem.

Shall we continue?

Let’s go into default. That’ll teach ‘em for not paying the extortion and surrendering to the Tea Cult’s demands. To hell with the consequences.

We're winning

Yes, as I stated numerous times. You should be happy as a clam in mud.

Why are you winning? Follow the money, of course. And above all, suppress voter turnout, obey Big Money, and ignore the public.

A dictatorship of a Big Money backed minority. Like fascism. Fascism is winning. Have you read about “Inverted Totalitarianism” yet?

The book title is: “Democracy Incorporated: Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism”

Here’s an introductory article:

Inverted Totalitarianism

And one paragraph, should your attention span be deficient.

Representative institutions no longer represent voters. Instead, they have been short-circuited, steadily corrupted by an institutionalized system of bribery that renders them responsive to powerful interest groups whose constituencies are the major corporations and wealthiest Americans. The courts, in turn, when they are not increasingly handmaidens of corporate power, are consistently deferential to the claims of national security. Elections have become heavily subsidized non-events that typically attract at best merely half of an electorate whose information about foreign and domestic politics is filtered through corporate-dominated media.

he's a regular poster on Democrat Underground

Like you are a regular poster here?

Dave Dubya said...

Great comment In the Washington Post on the GOP-hijacked vets rally:
=====
I served in the Marines from July 1962 until September 1966 and was discharged as a sergeant. So I'm a veteran but I do not stand with these people, who may or may not be veterans.

First of all, I tired of Chicken Hawks like Senator Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin who never served but will jump at any chance to speak for veterans. Well, they do not speak for me and I bet there are many other veterans they do not speak for. I'm tired of being a pawn in the Republican strategy to be the party of patriots as if no Democrat could possibility be a patriot.

They wrap themselves up in the flag, and congratulate each other on being "Great Americans" as if they are on the Sean Hannity show. At times, I cringe when I hear the word patriot because of the closed minded, mean spirited people who now claim that title as their own.

I am an American. As an American, I follow our political situation and read about and listen to the news. I am informed. The memorial were shut down because Republicans like Ted Cruz wanted to shut down government in order to end Obamacare. The monument was closed because of a reduction in force that the Republicans caused. Monuments are subject to vandalism and when the Park service could not supervise them, it closed them to protect them.

March on Capital Hill and not the White House and protest the House of Representatives, the Tea Party and the Republican party that supports them. That would be the patriotic thing to do.

Dave Dubya said...

And to be fair and balanced, Here's a Tea Party speaker statment:
====
“I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up,” said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.

free0352 said...

The Tea Cult can’t get over it, so they extort and hold the government hostage to their demands

The GOP won the house in 2010 and kept it in 2012. Nothing in the Constitution requires them to vote yes on budget CRs or debt increases.
Sounds like a that's a change YOU'D like to make.

Looks like your House needs cleaning.

GOP isn't all sweetness and light. Libertarian Populists are trying to change that... and yet we're the wing of the party you vilify.

Let’s go into default. That’ll teach ‘em for not paying the extortion and surrendering to the Tea Cult’s demands. To hell with the consequences.

What consequences? 30 billion out of the 250 billion this country takes in taxes per moth will service the debt per month. I guess we'd just have to run the government on over 2 trillion dollars a year? Oh boo-hoo. This is more fear mongering. The kind used to push the bail outs, the kind they tried to use to stop the sequester... the sequester by the way that Obama fought hard to avoid. These days he's touting the deficit reductions it created like those savings came by magic. Couple of years ago it was Obama threatening to not extend the debt limit, I didn't hear Democrats screaming in terror then.

As for the Dem Underground frame job, it failed miserably. Try again pinkos.





Dave Dubya said...

Nothing in the Constitution requires them to vote yes on budget CRs or debt increases.

Paying debts is their designated Constitutional duty. So is the common defense. Or is defense also hostage to Tea Party demands too?

Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and
Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general
Welfare of the United States;


GOP isn't all sweetness and light.

In fact the Dems are more libertarian on the issues I illustrated. But you can't admit that, because ALL of your guys are Republicans. Some "libertarian".

"To hell with the consequences."

What consequences?


This is why you're their tea boy.


Dave Dubya said...

As for the Dem Underground frame job, it failed miserably. Try again pinkos.

What's your evidence?

Why no outrage from the Tea Cult?

They seemed happy hanging close to the flag of treason and racism.

Better blame a liberal, but still the Tea Cult stood by it.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Free0352: "That's why the dick in question didn't make the national news."

Well, he didn't make Fox News, I'm sure, but I saw your Confederate flag-waving brother-in-arms on MSNBC before I even read your drivel about the incident.

Yeah, he was one of yours, alright, and congratulations on the (almost) successful deflection. Yeah, he may not have been a veteran, but he certainly was a tea party "dork" (or "dick", but take your pick. Both terms came from you).

By the way, organizers of the Million Veterans March released an official statement yesterday on their Facebook page saying they hadn’t invited the tea party to their event:

"The political agenda put forth by a local organizer in Washington DC (Sunday) was not in alignment with our message," organizers said. "We feel disheartened that some would seek to hijack the narrative for political gain."

Also, watching your latest anarchist spokesmen, Ted Cruz, speak to the crowd, I have to admit he certainly is glib-tongued when it comes to influencing the least common denominator. I sense this is what makes him so appealing to you. (It's also the reason the Germany people were so enthralled by Hitler.)


"Libertarian Populists are trying to change that... and yet we're the wing of the party you vilify."

The GOP certainly is the most dangerous wing of the corporatist party, but the teabag faction's delusional escapades spites rationality and better judgement (and common courtesy, it seems). You guys have a twisted predisposition toward blaming the wrong thing at the wrong time, even when the actual problem is staring you in the face.

I suspect that's why we've been mired in Iraq and Afghanistan so long. At least when you were visiting the Mall and stealing their show, you could have inquired how to win a war from the "Silent Generation".

Again, another missed opportunity -- because you couldn't keep your mouth shut.

free0352 said...

Paying debts is their designated Constitutional duty. So is the common defense. Or is defense also hostage to Tea Party demands too?

First, a budget is just that. Its not a paid bill. Second, the government takes in 250 billion a month, and the debt interest is 30 billion, leaving 220 billion per month for operations. There is enough incoming tax money to fund the interest now. Make do with it.

In fact the Dems are more libertarian

What President signed indefinite detention of American citizens without due process again? What party is he in? How much did he expand the CIA? Get fucking real. Obama is the leading Democrat and he does shit that would make Dick Chaney blush.

Yeah, he was one of yours, alright

Must be why we beat him up.







free0352 said...

At least when you were visiting the Mall and stealing their show, you could have inquired how to win a war from the "Silent Generation".

I suppose I should ask you, what with all your combat experience.

Dave Dubya said...

Distraction aside, you agree "In fact the House Dems are more libertarian" than House Republicans.

You can tell when Obama is wrong when Cheney agrees with him.

So "beating him up" is your evidence?

Dave Dubya said...

Government healthcare is proven to be a good thing...again.
“Rapid CDC response to meningitis outbreak from tainted steroid saved lives”
Thank you CDC.

And NO thanks to the Tea Party’s shut it down and “Let ‘Em Die” healthcare plan.

free0352 said...

you agree

I wouldn't call a law that allows for the indefinite detention of American citizens, and increased NSA spying to be a distraction. Its a rather strong point the Dems are at best just as bad as establishment Republicans - likely worse. It also is a strong point that libertarian Republicans get zero help from you stopping either of them.

Next, I don't suggest we get rid of the CDC. Government has a few roles to play, and preventing epidemics is one of them.

One of the roles it does not have, is the insurance business. But I love your logic. We should support this plan you admit is horrible, because doing something horrible is better than doing nothing.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Free0352: "It also is a strong point that libertarian Republicans get zero help from you stopping either of them."

You are kidding, right?

Progressives have been railing against these issues for years. It's just that your brand finally came upon these issues because they made the pages of the corporate media, and now you act like you've invented resistance.

Give me a break...


"I suppose I should ask you, what with all your combat experience."

You had the chance to ask people who knew, and like I already said, were too cocky and filled with false bravado too even listen.

If you knew how to win a war, why didn't you? The Silent Generation did it in four years. You've been mired in Afghanistan for over ten. It seems that draftees have you "professional soldiers" trumped in all ways.

Dave Dubya said...

From Ross Douthat, the Republican opinion writer at the New York Times:


“But with tonight’s vote done and the government open once again, I want to return to the theme of my Sunday column, and stress once more the essential absurdity of the specific populist gambit we’ve just witnessed unfold, drag on, and now finally collapse. However you slice and dice the history, the strategery, and the underlying issues, the decision to live with a government shutdown for an extended period of time — inflicting modest-but-real harm on the economy, needlessly disrupting the lives and paychecks of many thousands of hardworking people, and further tarnishing the Republican Party’s already not-exactly-shiny image — in pursuit of obviously, obviously unattainable goals was not a normal political blunder by a normally-functioning political party. It was an irresponsible, dysfunctional and deeply pointless act, carried out by a party that on the evidence of the last few weeks shouldn’t be trusted with the management of a banana stand, let alone the House of Representatives.”

free0352 said...

Give me a break...

Nope. Give me one. Its Democrats pushing these things these days. Whose name is on all those Patriot Act extensions? Obama.

You had the chance to ask people who knew

Really, who's that? What war were you in?

From Ross Douthat, the Republican opinion writer at the New York Times:

Ah the NY Times has an op ed critical of the GOP. That's a shockers. That's like every Op Ed they've ever published since the 50s. Oh but the writer is a Republicans haw...haw...haw.

He's probably one of these old douche bag Republicans, Libertarian Populists are trying to send to the dustbin of GOP history.





Dave Dubya said...

Call him what names you want, it doesn't remove the truth of words.

"Libertarian Populists". LOL! Is that what you call Koch corporatists?

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Free0352: "Really, who's that? What war were you in?"

There were several WWII vets attending the Million Veteran March. (You know, the rally that your band of loonies summarily co-opted as your own.) That's a start!

I've been fighting in the war of ideas for decades, and your kooky ones are out of line with reality. As previously said, you don't care whether you take everyone down with you. That's suicidal, and I call that irrational.

Libertarian populism! What a joke! As Dave Dubya coined it, I see it more as "Koch Corporatism".

No thank you.

free0352 said...

There were several WWII vets attending the Million Veteran March.

I could look a lot closer to home to the person who raised me (grandfather), as he was a Marine who made the landings at Guadalcanal and Guam. He was also at the Chosin Reservoir. His thought on the GWOT when I went to Afghanistan in 2001? His exaclty words were "Ruthlessly kill anyone who raises a hand to you - be nice to those who don't." I pretty much adopted that stance 100%. Then again I couldn't win the war all by myself, I wish the Pentagon would have listened more to him. There are an awful lot of Jihadists running around who desperately need to die. The ONE thing Obama does right is targeting them with UAVs. Its the one thing he does he should do more of.

As for your war of ideas thats... well thats just funny. Are you secretly a Conservative guy over hear pulling my leg all this time? I mean, nobody with even half a brain would really compare that with WWII right?

free0352 said...

I loved the response to libertarian populism. "Oh the outrage!" lol. Its even funnier considering you're trying to lay the claim to progressivism's populism when like three posts ago you were defending ObamaCare which forces people to buy corporate insurance with government choosing which corporation you can buy from... and if you don't they fine you.

Yeah hehe, how populist of you.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Free0352: "There are an awful lot of Jihadists running around who desperately need to die."

There weren't until you invaded sovereign states and occupied their countries. If a foreign entity invaded mine, I'd resist also. (Which explains why I resist the Corporate-State.)


"Are you secretly a Conservative guy over hear pulling my leg all this time?"

Yeah, that's me... ;-)


"I mean, nobody with even half a brain would really compare that with WWII right?"

You're right! There's no comparison! WWII was fought to make the world safe for democracy; you, and your generation, have served to help the Corporate-State destroy it. (That's why you're a tool.)

Thank you for your service to the corporatocracy. [sarcasm]

free0352 said...

Voter fraud in Detroit reported by super liberal Daily Kos no less.


But perhaps I'm sensitive to the issue, since its happening in my home town and I'm here to tell you its been going on for years.

If you are so pro democracy like you claim, you'd be for making sure the elections were... ya know... democratic.

Templar Prime said...

True. And any Democrat- controlled municipality or state is crumbling from within as a result of corruption and incompetence, not the mechanizations of 'eevil Republicans'.

Templar Prime said...

Really?
What a pile of stinking ordure.

Templar Prime said...

Spin, spin, spin.
Democrats owned slaves.
Republicans ended slavery.