Wednesday, March 2, 2011

“One Thing That I Do Know”

As Stephen Colbert discussed Bush’s approval ratings at the 2006 White House Correspondents Dinner, he informed us, “...Reality has a well-known liberal bias”. So conversely, we must conclude, un-reality would logically have a well-known conservative bias.

It’s almost overwhelming to think of all the lies and wild fabrications the Right has come up with to undermine, obstruct, and defeat the democratically elected corporatist President of the US. They say he is a foreign born, Muslim, socialist racist who hates white people and pushes policies intended to not only send old folks to death panels, but to destroy America.

True to form, Weeper of the House Boehner said “it’s not my job” to tell the people the truth. I can even understand that, from the Right, Obama seems a “liberal”. I’ll allow them that. Although from the center, he looks moderate/right when he continues to appease Wall Street, continues Bush foreign policies without investigating the torture and pre-war lies, and extends tax breaks for the rich.

In fact it’s the job of the entire Republican Party and radical Right to spread falsehoods and blur everything that challenges their efforts toward one-party dictatorship.

This week we heard presidential contender Mike Huckabee lie, and repeat it, on The Steve Malzberg Show, yet another AM propaganda swill machine of the radical Right.

Continuing the Right’s campaign to portray Obama as an African anti-colonial, anti-imperialist savage, Huckabee said, “I would love to know more. What I know is troubling enough. And one thing that I do know is his having grown up in Kenya, his view of the Brits, for example, [is] very different than the average American.”

One might pause here and say, “Wait a minute. Wasn’t the US born of an anti-colonial, anti-imperialist revolution?” Well, yes, but that was before we became a colonialist empire. Now, according to the Right, it is clearly unpatriotic to share those founders’ sentiments.

Huckabee’s apologist lackey eventually squawked, “Governor Huckabee simply misspoke when he alluded to President Obama growing up in 'Kenya.' The Governor meant to say the President grew up in Indonesia."

"When the Governor mentioned he wanted to know more about the President, he wasn't talking about the President's place of birth - the Governor believes the President was born in Hawaii. The Governor would however like to know more about where President Obama's liberal policies come from and what else the President plans to do to this country - as do most Americans."

Oh, I see. This is about where Obama “grew up” and was trained in his anti-American Marxist convictions... from age 6 to 10.

Huckabee went on and “misspoke” again, “...if you think about it, his perspective as growing up in Kenya with a Kenyan father and grandfather, their view of the Mau Mau Revolution in Kenya is very different than ours because he probably grew up hearing that the British were a bunch of imperialists who persecuted his grandfather.”

Perhaps we need to understand something here. It’s probably very easy to confuse the Mau Mau Revolution in Indonesia with the Mau Mau Revolution in Kenya, right? And what difference is there, really, between the British imperialists and the Dutch, or between Africa and Southeast Asia?

Have you known anyone that ever “misspoke” so elaborately? Has anyone ever “misspoke” so elaborately and repeatedly? This sounds like more than a mere slip of the tongue. It sounds like the deliberate, slippery, oily tongue of someone who stands to gain from the spread of misinformation. He is obviously talking to the brainwashed dupes of the Right who believe Obama is a foreign Muslim Marxist racist. He wants their votes and will allow any lie or falsehood to conveniently work towards that end.

A fifth of our country believes Obama is Muslim. There’s a clear reason for this. To borrow the Huckster’s words, what I know is troubling enough. And one thing that I do know is the truth is not on the Republicans’ side. It never was and never will be.

Update: George Will, of all people, has a not-so-dissimilar take on this extremist trend into un-reality.


Jack Jodell said...

Huckabee is an opportunistic liar and gigantic hypocrite. What you have presented here is undeniable truth, and proves how intolerant and phony the GOP itself has become. Not only that, but their wholly uncooperative and obstructionist behavior ever since Obama first took office is unprecedented and unpatriotic too. Just as they did with Bill Clinton, the Republicans won't cut ANY Democratic President any slack in the least, no matter how centrist or even moderate-right he may be. These people are narrow-minded extremists plain and simple, and their kind does not belong in American politics!

Darrell Michaels said...

I am certainly not a fan of Huckabee's and he does appear to be caught in a lie here.

That being said, he is hardly the only politician guilty of such, including our current liar in chief in the oval office.

Speaking of Obama, I don't think he is "a foreign born, Muslim, socialist racist who hates white people and pushes policies intended to not only send old folks to death panels, but to destroy America."

Not all of that is accurate. He absolutely has some significant Marxist/Socialist tendencies which are factually undeniable.

He also is pragmatic enough to make exceptions when Goldman Sachs etc contribute to his cause.

Whether his policies are "intentional" in the harm they are causing America is debatable. The fact that they ARE indeed harming it though, is not debatable.

Kulkuri said...

Those in the Reich-Wing are doing their damndest to destroy this country and turn it into a third-world banana republic. Anything to make it safe for the Uber-Rich to rape and plunder this country at will. For those that don't want any taxes or regulations, why the hell don't they go to Somalia??? Of course it's hard to rake in the big bucks when there aren't any.

What I don't understand is all the Quislings (most of whom don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of) working so hard to grant the Uber-Rich free rein. How much worse does it have to get before they realize they're backing the wrong horse.

Dave Dubya said...

You are right that the Right has no respect for democracy. In fact, along with Blue Dog corporatist Dems, they actively oppose it.

I added you to my "Sites to See".

I'm glad you detect the strong odor of dishonesty as well. You're right that Huckabee has no monopoly on "flexible truth". I'd like to see what your examples are of Obama being as blatantly false.

I'm not saying he's always telling the truth or is always correct on the facts. But what has he repeated that is as clearly false as what Huckabee said?

I won't argue with your point that Obama has socialist tendencies, as long as you admit Bush and Cheney had fascist tendencies, like war of aggression based on falsehoods, the Patriot Act, warrantless surveillance of citizens, incarceration without charges or counsel, and torture.

As far as what you say is, and is not, debatable, well, that's highly debatable.

Your assertion without verifiable documented evidence is only just that, assertion.

I say this while agreeing with you that much of what Obama has done is harmful to the country. To the extent he continues so much of the Bush agenda without investigating any of their actions behind it stands foremost.

We have to give credit, or blame, where due. FOX(R) and Reich Wing talkers have well served their role as Republican Ministry of Propaganda.

Tom Harper said...

Some of my favorite music is Gamelan; it's the indigenous music of Kenya. Most of it comes from Bali and Java, two large tropical islands that are part of Kenya.

Someday I'd like to travel to Indonesia and see Mount Kilimanjaro, the highest peak in Indonesia.

Dave Dubya said...

That reminds me of one of my favorite volcano disaster movies, "Krakatoa, East of Nairobi".

Darrell Michaels said...

Where has Obama lied? Are you serious? I can write a novel of a length to rival "War and Peace" with that topic.

Hell, his running for President alone amounted to a lie he told when he entered the senate.

He has been lying ever since. From his statements where he had "no desire to run car companies" prior to his taking over GM and Chrysler, to his guarantee of transparency in the healthcare debate with deliberations being televised on C-Span, which never were.

He lied that he would not hire lobbyists in his administration or give them unfettered access like Bush did and yet look at the lobbyists he has appointed as various czars and the fact that he has had Andy Stern and Richard Trumka visit the Whitehouse more than anyone else to get the "union" message across to him.

He said he wouldn't abide earmarks and we saw what a damned joke that was.

He said he wouldn't raise taxes "one dime" for the middle and lower class and then has enacted programs like Obamacare which definitely have caused me to spend more money.

I could go on for hours, but these are just a few off the top of my head.

And while I share some of your same concerns regarding the patriot act, I've noticed Obama has lied about that as well as shutting down Gitmo.

Come on Dave. You are way too smart to believe that Obama is honest.

jmsjoin said...

I am so sick of the lying! I believe I heard it mentioned today that you never hear questions about how being a kid raised in China influenced FDR.0

You know, lying is the new truth. The scum can say what they want as long as they get what they want. Huckleberry got said what he wanted to fuel the birthers.

I am sick of hearing the purposeful BS and then hearing I was misquoted, misinterpreted, misread, or misunderstood.

I want to scream thinking about Boehner, Cantor, Mcconnell, and the rest of the lying scum and what they are going to do to any and all Democrat gains for the people over the years.

Dave Dubya said...

Thanks for your response. No man is ready to be president. All presidents tell us that.

A quote would have been appropriate. Please tell me the lie that compares to Huckabee’s. That’s what I asked you for, remember?

Instead you generalize on campaign promises, broken by every politician, and allegations from the Right.

He bailed out the auto industry, saving American jobs. Bush was about to do the same. You say Obama had a desire to “run auto companies”?

So tell me, what does the "Obama-mobile" look like, since you say he "took over" auto companies? (They are now showing profits, and going public, as he promised, you know.)

He cut my taxes, and yours too, if you are honest enough to admit it.

Tell me how "Obamacare" has cost you money, please.

Don't allow me to make your case for you again, like I did with Obama harming America.

You can do it. After all, I admitted he is less than honest.

Dave Dubya said...

I'm sick of the lies too. I guess we just need to get used to it. That's what they do and always will do.

Tim said...

Obama is the greatest Republican President since St. Ronnie of Jelly Bean. Okay got that out of the way.
The Huckster is what all the Republican fuckwads are, liars. Hey let Koch put money in my pocket and I'll sing republican praises.
Not that Dems aren't bought and paid for to. Ask Wall Street. I don't like Obama, but these subtle attacks on whether he's a Muslim is working. They polled as many Republican as they could find that read and most of them believe all that dribble. Of Course being of sound character, republican leaders have come forth with the truth to their base, RedRose. The End.

Dave Dubya said...

I agree. The Dems are moderate Right, bought and paid for shills of Big Money to a great extent, but the Republicans are outright neo-fascists for the most part.

And their masters know it. When they had no majorities they could obstruct. Now they contol the House and the Senate and White House seem to fall in line.

Democracy is dead. Big Money calls the shots.

Darrell Michaels said...

Dubya, my friend, Obama himself said that he had “no desire to run car companies” in rebuttal to criticism when he used tax payer money to bail out Chrysler and GM. He did this not to save the car companies themselves, but to reward his loyal contributors with the UAW. Indeed, he ignored debt holders’ claims that had legal stakes in the company and gave a huge percentage of ownership to the unions instead. How the hell is that fair for a President to take over a private company, fire the executives, appoint his own executives telling them what they will earn and then telling the companies what they can make? You want to know what an Obama-mobile looks like? I don’t know, but it doesn’t resemble a Pontiac, Hummer, or Oldsmobile since those were all deemed to be bad, and had to be eliminated from the production lines by government fiat, rather than the dictates of the consumers. Tiny hybrid cracker boxes are what the Obama administration wants made. Obama knew exactly what he was doing here when he stepped in and took over. If GM and Chrysler had continued, they would have filed bankruptcy and had to renegotiate debt and new more-reasonable union contracts. Obama’s paid his debt to his minions there.

Next, while you may not see it in ink on your income tax form, the fact that Obama’s policies have already created additional expenses one must pay in order to live amounts to the same thing. Further, his continuation of Bush’s asinine spending (only worse), guarantees that all of us will end up paying far more taxes very soon if the nation is to remain solvent.

As for Obamacare, the fact that he cut huge amounts of funding from Medicare in order to fund his un-constitutional health care plan, has already caused great pain to patients and service providers alike. Service providers cannot afford to be reimbursed due to the new cost restrictions at a loss for each of their Medicare patients, so they simply stop adding new patients or cut those they do have. Those that still see Medicare patients raise their prices for services to those of us other patients in order to make up the difference, thus making my health insurance premiums, co-pays, and deductibles go way up. No, I suppose this is not technically a tax, but the fact that I have no choice but to pay more for certain services due directly to his policies amounts to the same thing.

I can give you the rising cost of gasoline being largely Obama and the Democrats fault too. From the banning of off-shore drilling after Obama’s incompetent handling of the Gulf Horizon oil spill, to their insistence to disallow drilling in ANWR, or extraction of shale oil in many of the rocky mountain states, to Obama’s hand’s off foreign policy with the Middle East that only fuels dangerous speculation on rising oil prices all amount to all of us having to pay more at the pump and for all of our goods shipped by truck, train, or plane due to the higher cost of oil.

If one were to come up with a plan of how to go about destroying America, it would seem Bush did a great job getting the ball rolling and then Obama, Reid, and princess Pelosi took over to try and put the final nails in the coffin from there.

The fact that you attribute these socialist/Marxist, anti-capitalist, pro-statist Democrats as moderate right on the political spectrum only goes to show how truly far to the left you must be, my friend.

Dave Dubya said...

You still have not provided a quote.

You disregard the fact that the auto companies’ collapse would have had great ripple effects on thousands of related jobs being lost, as well as UAW. You tie in nefarious motives for Obama when Bush was set to bail them out as well. Do you think maybe Bush understood the consequences of inaction? This was about saving American jobs. Who knows how catastrophic the job losses would have been had Obama let them fail. You pretend to know what course bankruptcy would have taken and the consequences. That is conjecture and opinion, not fact.

What, pray tell, is unreasonable about firing executives responsible for the failure? If “Obama knew exactly what he was doing here when he stepped in and took over” then all the better. It was an emergency and he did the right thing for the working class for a change. When has that ever happened when the GOP were in charge? It was not all the union workers’ fault you know. Mismanagement, “free trade”, low tariffs on imports all combined to adversely affect Detroit. Yet you cling to the Right Wing obsession with blaming and punishing only the little guys.

Your argument that Obama “runs” auto companies is ludicrous and absurd, but it makes hysterical and dishonest Right Wing spin. It was intervention and temporary, not a “takeover”. He does not “run” any auto company. That is a lie. The truth is GM is doing much better and the employees you scorn are getting a bonus for a change. Is that why you are so angry and in such a rush to spread propaganda?

Your “oily” argument is also slippery, my friend. “Obama’s hand’s off foreign policy with the Middle East that only fuels dangerous speculation” is rife with falsehood and accusation. Managing two military occupations and wars started by Bush is not “hands off” now is it? What do you want anyway, another trillion dollar invasion? The people’s uprisings are the reasons for the gouging “speculation”, and if you think Obama has anything to do with that then you may as well go back to Glenn Beck University and cry about the impending theocratic Caliphate we liberals are accused of wanting. Those people do not want our interference.

So was Obama supposed to dive under the sea and plug the leak with his own hands? Give me a break, BP wanted to manage the spill so they could frame the damage and costs to their liking. They lied about the severity from the beginning. The Gulf spill was a result of corporate greed, shortcuts on safety, no regulation or oversight, and a Bush Administration corrupted MMS. There’s no longer a ban on drilling and everything is nearly as it was during the Bush years. Big Oil is still getting over $50 billion worth of subsidies. Now THAT bit of corporate welfare really is now Obama’s fault. He is a corporatist, as are all Republicans and most Democrats.

Dave Dubya said...

Your utterly baseless “socialist/Marxist, anti-capitalist, pro-statist Democrats” is 100% pure Limbaugh crap and you should know it. But it feels so self-righteous and “real American” to say that though, doesn’t it?

Gee, health care costs are going up. That never happened during the Bush Regime did it? Here’s reality. Health insurance prices have been rising exponentially since 2000, sometimes as much as 20% at once. And this has nothing to do with “Obamacare”. It is out of control and will eat us alive if not fixed. You can whine about rising premiums all being Obama’s fault now, even though we would be gouged anyway with or without “Obamacare”. Get real, the GOP corporate status quo is still in charge of rationing out health care and they are still taking our health care money and stashing it in CEO’s pockets.

Nationally, family premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance increased 119 percent between 1999 and 2008, and could increase another 94 percent to an average $23,842 per family by 2020 if cost growth continues on its current course, according to a new Commonwealth Fund report.

Big Money is destroying the American working class and the GOP is their number one partner helping them do it. Bottom line.

Oh, and it’s all Obama’s fault.

Darrell Michaels said...

I find it sadly amusing that you are likely correct that Bush would have done the same thing in bailing out the auto industry, but that hardly makes it right, let alone constitutional. Further, I doubt seriously Bush would have denied reimbursement to legal debt holders first and given a hugely undue amount of the companies’ assets to the unions. There are already legal processes in place to deal with companies when they fail for whatever reason. It is called bankruptcy.

GM and Chrysler could have reorganized and shed much of their debt, especially their union debt that created literally thousands of dollars in legacy costs added to every new car that rolled off the production line simply to pay union pensions due to foolishly negotiated bloated contracts, if only they had been allowed to go through bankruptcy. Instead, Obama (and Bush) both thought it was too dangerous to let these companies that were “too big to fail” actually do so. I don’t deny that there would have been pain, but by not holding management and unions accountable and letting them know that the government will always be there to bail them out regardless of whether they are irresponsible or even criminal is asinine in the extreme. It simply invites more of the same mismanagement in the future.

Further, GM still owes $26.4 BILLION to the taxpayers. After they offer public stock with a new IPO, for the government to recoup their money on their remaining shares, the price would have to be at $53 per share. AS they are at $32 a share now, that is quite optimistic. I guess for the benefit of the “little guys” though, our $50 billion dollar loan to GM was worth it, huh?

You are right that management, tariffs, etc also had responsibility in their failure, but the fact remains that unions were a HUGE contributing factor to the company’s demise. That is economic fact and not conjecture, sir.

As for the Middle East, Obama has been remarkably timid in standing up for freedom and supporting oppressed people. His tepid support for Iranians during their first uprising and massacre well after the fact was embarrassing. Next, he sends a FERRY to evacuate our people from Libya without giving much in reassurance to its people. He called for Mubarak to resign only when it looked like it was inevitable. He has not been courageous and a leader.

Darrell Michaels said...


You are right that these uprisings are largely what is causing the speculation, but Obama’s failure to quell fears by having the 5th fleet patrol the eastern Mediterranean and the Suez canal to ensure that shipping lanes remain open and free are definitely not helping. Further, he can remove his asinine restrictions on offshore drilling and in proven on-shore oil reserves. That act alone would go far to negate the huge rise in gas prices that actually does hurt the little guy. I have seen gas rise from $2.72 to $3.25 in the last month alone. This will only serve to further hurt the economy and all Americans accordingly.

Next, your selective memory on the oil spill is interesting. Obama refused readily available help from other nations and seemingly hamstringed our own fleets in preventing the spread of the oil spill. He further hurt the region by imposing his drilling moratorium. Interestingly enough, his compatriot George Soros seemed to be the biggest beneficiary of this action, I am sure just coincidentally though.

For the record though, I am in agreement with your outrage at the subsidies for oil companies. See, we can agree on something! 

Next, I realize healthcare has been going up in costs forever… 119% between ’99 and 2008 according to your source. One wonders how much more exponentially that will climb now that Obamacare is here to “fix” the problem? I know that my deductible for hospitalizations went up from $100 to $500 and that is in addition to my co-pays going up 50% on top of that. My primary care doctor has told me that he may have to shut his practice down now. Yeah, I am sure that is all Bush’s fault though.

Lastly, you complain about big money and its influence on our politicians, and by and large we agree on this. Bush absolutely was guilty of this, but you are kidding yourself if you don’t think Obama is a thousand times more guilty of this with his cronyism and illegalities in support of his union contributors and those of his friends at Goldman Sachs etc.

JoeBama "Truth 101" Kelly said...

How come nobody ever looks at all the non union workers whose jobs were saved by the auto bailout?

They got nice pensions.

Think of all the non union workers at dealerships that kept their jobs Thomas. While their pensions may not have been as nice, it's nice to have a job.

Your blaming of unions for the lousy management practices of Chrysler and GM is misguided and bordering on disingenuous Mr. Paine.

Darrell Michaels said...

Morally Depraved, I absolutely agree with you that management at GM was exceptionally poor at best.

There are many things they could have done much better, not to include the negotiating of ridiculously lucrative and unsustainable union contracts, that would have had GM running more profitably.

I am not excusing management at all. I am simply pointing out the culpability of the unions as being a major and often overlooked factor in the demise of the old GM.

Further, you are absolutely correct that folks with dealerships would have suffered under bankruptcy and likely many would have lost jobs as well.

Note that GM and Chrysler though did indeed cut many dealerships from their company inventory under the Obama "restructuring". It was reported thought that many of those dealerships chosen to be cut seemed to coincidently be contributors to others besides Obama. Perhaps that is a coincidence though.

JoeBama "Truth 101" Kelly said...

We're both capitalists Mr. Paine. Why would capitalists condemn those for wanting the best deal they could get?

Dave Dubya said...

Yes, more GOP-supporting auto dealers were closed, due to the fact most dealers are Republicans. No conspiracy there.

Does that mean you still want to buy a used car from them? ;-)

Weaseldog said...

T. Paine, "Not all of that is accurate. He absolutely has some significant Marxist/Socialist tendencies which are factually undeniable."

We've been able to disprove every point you've made along these lines so far. Do you have something new to present?

Weaseldog said...

T. Paine, you'd be a hoot to take to Punch and Judy puppet show.

You actually believe that the puppets have free will!

Rick Massey said...

Good post Dave! This really is all about de-legitimizing the "democratically elected corporatist President of the US." Huckabee has to lie about Obama for two reasons: first, he needs to differentiate himself in the eyes of the religious right both from the Ramni (who is in that Mormon cult coming to deceive all of the "real" Christian organization); and secondly, if he talked about what Obama has actually done and didn't just make stuff up it would to tell the difference between his actions and what the Republicans publically endorse. It is the old marketing gimmick - take two nickles out of your pocket and tell me why the one on the right is so much better than the one on the left.

The claims of why he is different don't have to be true or even make sense. That's because the intended audience will not hear them anyway. Every claim that he is "not one of us", regardless of the actual words only goes to the real purpose of reminding the bigots and the rednecks that he ain't the right color. I know, the Right will always deny this. Some of their best friends are black, etc., etc. But when the only policies seem to pretty much follow the roadmap of their pet policies - and everything else is completely compromised for them before the debate begins, it's hard to have any credibility in denying that the real problem is something they cannot honestly point out.

Dave Dubya said...

At least the Right is "fair and balanced" enough to be hostile to both union and non-union labor. They want nothing short of neo-feudalism where they are the lords and the rest of us are the serfs.

Exactly, the Right not only opposes the Democratic Party, but democracy itself. They never accept the voters' choice for a Democratic president, and therefore immediately set about undermining that little bit of democracy we have left.

S.W. Anderson said...

Anyone who goes to Republicans looking for truth is in a goat's house for wool, to use an old expression.

Like the Soviets, when you rely on ideology to achieve and maintain discipline in your rank and file, and power over know-nothings, you come up against the truth repeatedly. Because your ideology doesn't work in the real world, truth must be made to give way to ideology. So, you adopt the big-lie technique as standard operating procedure.

That's where Huckabee and all the rest of them are. I'd be willing to bet if we could get ex-Sen. Chuck Hagel to spill his guts, he'd say he got out because he couldn't take the ideology and the reliance on the big-lie technique any more.

Darrell Michaels said...

Ah, Mr. Anderson, always so smart in the analysis and yet perpetually wrong in the conclusions...

"They never accept the voters' choice for a Democratic president, and therefore immediately set about undermining that little bit of democracy we have left," says Dubya. I say, yep, and there is absolutely no hypocrisy to be found with Democrats on this exact measure either, is there?

I won't even bother with Mr. Massey's tired charges of racism, as that seems to be the last defense of a bankrupt ideology against the right.

Dave Dubya said...

For all their anti-communist bloviating the Right emulates the Soviet’s Pravda every day with their FOX(R) propaganda. The Right also agrees with the Soviet and Chinese Communists, not to mention Arab dictators, Nazis, and other fascists, in their anti-union, anti-democracy elitism.

You still have not provided a quote of Obama’s lie that is repeated and as wrong as Huckabee’s. Did you give up and settle for unkept campaign promises?

Listen, when half of all Republican voters believe Obama is a foreign born Marxist Muslim, the Big Lie is in effect. When Beck accuses Obama of being a racist who hates white people and still keeps his multimillion dollar job as propagandist and fear-monger, the Big Lie is in effect. When Limbaugh claims that the Left, not the Right is racist, the Big Lie is in effect. When a hundred thousand pro-union demonstrators peacefully protest a fascist governor stripping their rights, and are constantly called “union thugs” anyway, the Big Lie is in effect. When liberals must be portrayed as communists, and accused of destroying America, this is fascist scapegoating, exactly in the pattern of early Nazi propaganda.

The GOP hounded and impeached Clinton for a private act of indiscretion that was nobody’s business but those close to the participants. Newt led the charge as he committed even worse acts of betrayal. Now he has a FOX(R) supported campaign for president. Show me Democratic hypocrisy that extreme, please. Really, show me, or please refrain from bringing up hypocrisy. They all show some, but the Right is far more extreme as they betray every vestige of democracy we have left and tell us the OTHER guys are destroying America.

Meanwhile the Dems never even investigated, let alone held accountable, the Bush Administration for admitted guilt on torture and falsehoods used to take us to war.

False equivalency hardly describes this disparity, my friend.

Like it or not, TP, every racist, as well as every corporate crook, in America agrees with the GOP slime machine. Deal with it. These are your allies, like it or not.

Dave Dubya said...

Just a quick nod to George Will's similar take on this GOP extremist trend:

Mauigirl said...

So true. If Huckabee were Pinnocchio his nose would be the length of a baseball bat.

As for Obama, he may be a centrist but compared to the so-called Reich Wing, he is not. If anyone thinks that any of the possible GOP candidates would be no worse than Obama, they have another think coming. Aside from - maybe - Romney, the rest of them would be such a disaster that they would make George W. look like Roosevelt (either one).

I don't disagree that Obama's policies are probably similar to Republicans - but I'm talking about the Republicans in the 50s and 60s like Eisenhower or Rockefeller. Not what passes for the Grand Old Party today.

Dave Dubya said...

As precarious as the states of our democracy and economy are in, Democrats are bad enough. I'm convinced we are one Republican President away from descent into the darkness of totalitarian neo-feudal Republicanism.

Imagine how extreme they will become, knowing Bush was completely unaccountable for the disastrous war, surveillance state and economy he left us. There's nothing stopping them but voters. We can keep them out of power, but that isn't looking very positive now. The Right is at work to deny minority voting rights with new voter ID laws.

They are enemies of democracy, and this is no exaggeration.

S.W. Anderson said...

Paine, thinly veiled racism has been a hallmark of Republican politics for more than a generation. It got the solid South behind the GOP starting with Nixon, more so with Reagan, and it's been that way ever since.

Tea baggers have taken right-wing racism to a whole new level. I spent about 45 minutes last fall looking at photos of tea bagger events from across the country. That was a lot of photos. The one glaring common theme, from coast to coast, was racist resentment and Obama bashing. Their signs, posters, hats and T-shirts were lousy with it, and it was despicable.

You can't deny or lie away repeated attempts at voter suppression in predominantly black communities. In 2004, there was outright voter intimidation in Florida and Texas by cops. It happened again in Florida in 2008. Republicans even targeted blacks in the military, trying to get them disqualified from voting absentee. In Ohio, it was done with lack of voting machines and polling places in and near black neighborhood, making people stand out in cold, wet weather for as long as eight hours to be able to vote.

The sustained assault on ACORN based on bogus information, frame-ups, lies and propaganda succeeded. It was carried out by right-wing "activists," trumpeted by Republican pols and echoed at saturation levels by the right-wing noise machine. It then bacame another case of Obama buckling when he and congressional Democrats should've fought back.

The whole purpose of that effort was to reduce the number of black voters, because radical Republicans know most black Americans vote Democratic. It's that simple. What's more, I'm sure you know very well what it was all about. Your attempt to deny it leaves you without any credibility.

Weaseldog said...

T. Paine said, "I don’t deny that there would have been pain, but by not holding management and unions accountable and letting them know that the government will always be there to bail them out regardless of whether they are irresponsible or even criminal is asinine in the extreme. It simply invites more of the same mismanagement in the future."

You can bet that Bush would've done the same thing.

You seem to be uinder the mis-Aprehension that either President has the power to chart their own course. Both did as they were told, though Bush beamed and grinned from ear to ear, when he talked about dead Marines. Obama seems to be less sociopath and more narcissist.

And you're right. It was irresponsible as wast he McCain / Obama plan to bail out the banks to begin with. In a society that believes in the rule of law, these bankers would not have been bailed out. They would've been given very long prison terms.

The unions got such a big cut, not because our politicians are socialists, but because they are capitalists. The union bosses ply politicians with campaign donations and bribes. They got the pension money so it could be funneled back into the pockets of politicians.

Weaseldog said...

T. Paine, if you'd grown up in the American South and South East, you'd understand how stupid and silly this argument sounds...

"I won't even bother with Mr. Massey's tired charges of racism, as that seems to be the last defense of a bankrupt ideology against the right."

Or maybe you already know it's false and you're just being dishonest?

Darrell Michaels said...

Anderson's comments are so ridiculous and completely unsubstantiated by any credible source that I won't even bother responding there.

Weasel, I actually find myself largely in agreement with your first response and will leave it on that good note, as your second comment is Anderson-esque.

Dave Dubya said...

Your points stand, "Thinly veiled racism has been a hallmark of Republican politics for more than a generation. It got the solid South behind the GOP starting with Nixon, more so with Reagan, and it's been that way ever since."


"You can't deny or lie away repeated attempts at voter suppression in predominantly black communities."

TP obviously never heard of the "Southern strategy".

The Right ignores history when it is convenient, but they love to say “Democrats opposed civil rights reform”. What they don’t admit is those were very conservative “Dixiecrats” who were more racist than the Northern Republicans who actually did support civil rights. They quickly defected to the Republican Party to get the Southern racist voters.


Weaseldog said...

TP said, "Weasel, I actually find myself largely in agreement with your first response and will leave it on that good note, as your second comment is Anderson-esque."

I take it you mean Mr. Anderson from 'The Matrix'?

Where are you posting from anyway? Are you in Tel Aviv? You don't seem to know much about the culture in the USA.

Darrell Michaels said...

Weaseldog, I think you will find that the USA differs remarkably depending upon where you are located within it.

San Francisco is remarkably different than Boise, which is completely alien to New York City, which is unrecognizable to Raleigh, and so on and so forth.

That being said, the America to which I often refer is the one which a majority of Americans would have it be and not the ones that the far right and certainly not the far left would have it as.

Darrell Michaels said...

And for the record I did live for quite a few years in the south, and while I found racism alive and well in a few isolated spots when one went digging deep enough, so to did I find it in "enlightened" cities like Portland, Oregon.

If you go searching for something of that ilk, you can probably find it if you continue looking long and hard enough.

libhom said...

Schmuckabee is a desperate Southern racist. He is the same kind of bigot as Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond who both left the Democratic Party because of civil rights legislation in the 60s.

I have to laugh at how this "T. Paine" guy will parrot any nonsense that Faux News will make up about Obama, a politician that agrees with him at least 95% of the time. Racism makes some people willing to believe anything about people who are not 100% lily white.

I also have to laugh because the real Thomas Paine was a leftist. Today, he would make Michael Moore seem like a conservative by comparison.

Dave Dubya said...

Unfortunately the far right has all the power. Two thirds of the people support union rights for public employees. They are being attacked anyway, and their rights are being stripped anyway.

Your side is wining. You should be very happy.

BTW, racism, like the false belief that Obama is Muslim, can be found in every city, town, street, and rural area of this country. It is not limited to "isolated spots".

I wonder why TP is "not a fan" of Huckabees's...

Unknown said...

For the fucking love of Christ, the loans to the auto industry are being paid back and we are actually making money off them. Wtf is wrong w/people that they would bitch about bailing out a company that actually manufactures something, unlike the Wall St bailouts.

The Rethugs always lie like a fucking rug. They all walk in lockstep with these lies so eventually the Corporate Media repeats them enough times that they become truth, like the friggin death panel bullshit.

Instead of creating jobs, the rightwing nutters in Congress are using their time in power to cut programs they fucking stupid and useless is that? The percentage those programs use of the federal budget ain't shit for the love of Christ.

Socialism is with us in our daily lives..its called your police departments, your fire departments and a host of other things done for the good of everyone, regardless of their station in life or whether they make enough money to pay taxes.

Yes, lets go back to the days of elderly folks eating fucking dog food and living in hovels! Those were the glory days, right dudes?

Lets let the mentally ill stew in their own juices and wander the streets talking to themselves, why thats the American Way!

Children need health insurance? Why? Fuck em, let them continue to have health problems, so that when they become adults their ability to work is compromised and they too can live under bridges or in storm drains!

I am so sick and tired of the "I got mine, fuck the rest of you" people. Morally bankrupt as they are, they too deserve certain things in life, like health, happiness and the ability to earn a livable wage. They too deserve a fire department to save them or their homes when something goes wrong and they too deserve a police department that will come to their aid when their wife is attacked in their own home or some asshole steals the only car they have that gets them back and forth to work each day.

When we, as liberals go aftr assholes like Huck, the only thing the rightwing nutters can toss back at us is all those lies Obama has told us.

Yet Obama is managing, inspite of them, to bring the economy slowly back to life. Yes, inspite of them because NONE of those R's voted for any of the things he wanted to do and did without their help.

The Unions gave us so much, with regards to workers rights, and yet the R's are so afraid of them they will put their careers on the line to toss them into the bowels of hell.

Of the top ten big contributors, the unions were three of them. The other seven are Corporations that support the rightwing nutters. God fucking forbid we as the little guys have someone in our court that has money to fight the fucking Corporatocracy. God fucking forbid.

And lets not forget..stopping all those abortions, that any woman can get on any street corner according to the R's, is so much more important than creating jobs for America and righting the ship known as our economy.

Dave Dubya said...

Thank you.
Aside from that, how do you like those Republicans? ;-)

(Real)democratic socialism is our only salvation from the fascism the radical Right is leading us into.

We are locked in the struggle between democracy and totalitarianism. Sadly, democracy is losing.

Unknown said...

Yes, Democracy is losing the battle, but hopefully not the war against the fascist, extremist R's and their corporate agenda Dave. It's enough to drive you insane, or at the very least..postal.

There are sane voices within the Rethug party, but sadly they are being drowned out or voted out by the nutters. I know lots of moderates that are registered as Republicans. They tell me they are embarrassed by the actions of the idiots in office. They tell me that it's as obvious as the nose on your face what their agenda is.

I don't have to beat them up about being a republican..they do it to themselves these days. They are intelligent individuals, college educated and not easily swayed by the idiotic commercials and talking points spewed by the extremists within the party.

Money can buy you lots of things, but not the hearts and minds of people that think for themselves and have compassion for others during this trying time in our nations history. Many people realize that they could be in the same boat tomorrow. Which is why I have faith that this fuckery being foisted upon us by the extreme right will fail eventually when they push it over the limits of decorum and moral obligation to care for those who are the hapless victims of Wall Streets greed.

Seeing fear in the eyes of my brother in law tells me everything I need to know about moderate republicans. A life long republican, he worries now that he will be one of the have nots if his company folds, as there are only two worlds for the R's..the rich and those that work for them.

My sister who has always made a comfortable living, had to take a job within the same company at a loss of 10k a year in her wages to do basically the same thing she has done for ten years at the subsidiary. That is a huge hit for anyone to deal with...but these days...a job is a job...and the fucking R's and their rich friends love it.

Darrell Michaels said...

First, not that I really care one way or the other, but if Dusty were to remove the expletives from her comments, they would be about one half the size. I guess we would lose that sense of passion though.

Dusty, I don’t know what all conservatives think and I am NOT a Republican, but I can tell you that I think what you call socialism in the forms of police and fire protection are necessary. Nobody sane wants to remove that. That being said, there absolutely are programs and departments that should be cut from our federal budget, if not for the fact that some are patently unconstitutional, then perhaps because we are $14 Trillion in debt. In the grand scheme of things, I realize that defunding infanticide through Planned Parenthood, cutting money for NPR, and the national endowment for the arts really won’t make a dent in our deficit. To do that we need to overhaul Medicare and Social Security and likely do an across the board cut in funding for all departments and agencies. Further, we should cut those which don’t work, aren’t needed, and aren’t constitutionally authorized.

The Department of Education can go away and be administered with much greater efficiency and better results on the state level. The same is true for the joke called the Department of Energy. Housing and Urban Development likewise.

Dusty, I find it amusing that you state how the vile Republicans lie and yet you resort to the tired old falsehood from the left of how the GOP wants the elderly to eat dog food again. First of all, do you have a dog? Their food is not cheap; certainly not more so than good food fit for human consumption one can buy.

I laugh at the notion of what “Obama has done to restore our economy” too. Further, he is the one GUILTY along with his Democrats in congress that bailed out Wall Street and their ilk. I am certain Goldman Sachs is very grateful to them accordingly.

As for unions, they absolutely did have a vital place in our history and still do today. Nonetheless, giving PUBLIC unions the right to collective bargain for more benefits and pay raises is absurd. These folks are ones paid with our tax dollars, by definition of being a public union. Governor Walker was fighting for the tax payer in this case. Now private unions are another story and are free to do as they please in my opinion, ma’am. I don’t think the government is going to violate its own labor or OSHA laws though for its employees, so working conditions really aren’t a factor here. Further, as most government employees typically are paid MORE than their private sector counter-part these days, that argument won’t fly either. Was it Walker’s intention to try and bust these unions? I don’t know but I sure as hell hope that is what happens with the public unions. They are not abused people. They work for we the people on our dime. They shouldn’t make significantly more than the average one of us in the private sector to do their jobs as public servants, particularly in this economic time.

Why the hell should I pay more to a public servant doing the same job I am doing in the private sector via my tax dollars? Does that even make sense to you?

JoeBama "Truth 101" Kelly said...

Well, you could join a union and negotiate a better wage Mr. Paine.

And in case you forgot, the stimulus was passed just before Obama took office. And by all accounts, it's worked. Stock market has doubled. Whoopee! I'm up. Unemployment is now under 9%.

Oops. Where'd your comment go Thomas?

Unknown said...

Ah yes, Thank you Mr. Morally Depraved..aka Truth 101, you sexy devil. ;)

Dave Dubya said...

What if by some chance the Wall Street bailouts saved us from a severe depression? And what if restoring regulatory oversight would prevent the Banksters from pulling it off again?

You would still side with the Greedy Oily Party and let them blow it again, with worse consequences. We cannot let them play roulette like that at our expense again. It wasn't the unions that collapsed our economy. It was the Big Money guys, those who now massively contribute more money to Republicans over Dems.

You would blame Obama, of course, and conveniently forget your Weeper of the House was weeping as he urged approval of those bailouts. Bush, Boehner and McCain all approved too, you know. Perhaps for good reason. Your eagerness to assign blame to only Obama and Democrats betrays your Republican inclinations, my friend.

So how about showing us some of those non-corporate scientists who deny climate change? Believe it or not Al Gore did not invent climate change. The scientific consensus is clear.

Of course why should I even discuss science with someone who supports the party that wants creationism taught in science classes?

I am also weary of the Right's blanket statements about public service employees always being paid more than those in the private sector. Sometimes they are and sometimes they are not. Education, seniority, age, and other factors are in play that the Right cares not to admit. If you can't accept that reality, again what is the point of the discussion?

Public employees are not "abused people" mostly thanks to unions. Stripping their rights and using them as political pawns in order to distract from giveaways to corporate cronies, IS abuse.

Your compassion is consistently for the elites, and against your own class. You want to cut public programs so the few elites you revere so highly can have more than they could ever need. We are talking three percent; and you act like restoring those rates is communism. That is why this country is going to hell. Reverence of wealth, and the wealthy, over concerns for the 99 percent of the rest of us will insure our demise.

Darrell Michaels said...

Dubya, what if by some chance the Wall Street bailouts actually served to prolong our recession? And what if the financial reform act passed actually does NOTHING to prevent all of this from happening again? It doesn’t, you know? All the financial reform act did was give the power to the president to deem which companies were too big to fail and would cause catastrophic damage to the economy so that they can be taken over by the federal government. It moved that dubious and unconstitutionally used power from congress to the whims of one man in the oval office. Yeah, great freaking idea there!

Further, I understand that there would have been serious pain if many of the Wall Street firms were allowed to fail, as they should have been, but now there was basically no consequences for their illegal and unscrupulous behavior. Goldman Sachs got bailed out because they were huge players in the corrupt Obama administration. Yes, Bush is equally guilty.

I agree that “Big Money” was to blame for the economic recession ALONG WITH the unions, whom you totally excuse from any malfeasance. So who is the biased one here, Dave? I see the issues and fault on both sides of the political aisle quite clearly. Bush, Boehner, and McCain’s support for the bailouts were wrong and prevented existing bankruptcy laws from correctly solving the problems of greed and mismanagement. Instead greed ruled the day and the perpetrators got off with no worse the wear.

As for your climate change challenge, I have provided you links in the past from un-biased scientists and you have still dismissed them. I am not inclined to go dig them up again to be similarly dismissed again. Further, it is a great big joke that you think your pro-climate change “scientists” are altruistic and are only concerned for mankind and the earth with their research. BULL! These folks are very much dependent upon federal grants and donations to universities to continue their erroneous research. It is about self preservation of their jobs as much as anything else that keeps them “researching”. They have no response to the serious holes poked into their theories, from the fact that the models used to predict global warming are inaccurate and not taking into account critical factors, to the fact that by their own leaked emails and admissions that they have cherry picked or created their own data to support their hypothesis on the matter. The whole debacle with the East Anglia research being guilty of these very things is seemingly ignored by you and like supporters, sir.

Darrell Michaels said...


Next, your condescension aside, there is far more science behind intelligent design of the universe than the incalculably slight odds that the universe and life were so finally tuned by sheer random chance.

Lastly, putting your erroneous assertions aside yet again, I am not for the “elites” and wealthy any more than I am for anybody else. I would like to see everyone have equal opportunities to succeed in this country. The best way to do that is for laws to be enforced to keep the powerful or unscrupulous from breaking the law and unlawfully taking advantage of others. It would seem that you would prefer that we dedicate billions of dollars to fund more government programs to “help” those that you don’t consider to be “elite” and “wealthy”. Never mind the fact that some of the most egregious abusers of these laws happen to be those elites that share your exact same sentiments. (From Soros, to Michael Moore, to Timothy Geithner, to Barack Hussein Obama) I guess we can give them a pass though because their politics at least show that they care, huh?

How about, instead of looking for a corrupt and nearly bankrupt government to take care of everybody, we look to do what we can for our damned selves? Then, if we succeed, we can do what we can to take care of and help our family and neighbors. From there we can do things to help our community and even our state. Why the left wants to rely on the most inefficient and often corrupt way to “help” people via the government absolutely astounds me. How many untold billions of dollars have we spend on LBJ’s “war on poverty” since the 1960’s and yet things are as bad as or worse today than they were back then. I know…. I know…. “How much worse would it be if we didn’t spend that money to help the poor?”

How about we start inculcating a sense of personal responsibility and integrity in this country again so that people want to work and take care of themselves by first taking advantage of their education?
How about we reward the good teachers and fire the crappy ones, instead of letting the unions protect the incompetent or lazy ones? How about parents actually parent their kids and insist that they do well in school for their own good? How about we actually stop all of the moral relativity political correct crap and start treating each other as we would like to be treated ourselves? Maybe then we can get people out from a seemingly permanent underclass and eradicate this nation of its victimhood mentality that has become so predominant these days, and which the left seemingly wants to perpetuate. After all, if we keep supporting these “victims” and never let them find the dignity of providing for themselves, then they will always be reliant on the Democrats and always vote accordingly, and isn’t that really the crux of the matter? It is about political power and nothing else.

Dave Dubya said...

The “chance the Wall Street bailouts actually served to prolong our recession” is ludicrous. Where is your reasoning and evidence?

“And what if the financial reform act passed actually does NOTHING to prevent all of this from happening again?” Because the corporate ass-kissing Republicans and Blue Dogs gutted it.

““Big Money” was to blame for the economic recession ALONG WITH the unions.’ This is also ludicrous. Where is your reasoning and evidence? A mouse and an elephant are both mammals too. One leaves a bigger mess.

Yes, you sent me links to climate change deniers, and they are corporate funded. But I guess only corporate scientists are altruistic and honest.

I suppose those stolen out of context East Anglia emails weigh in more heavily than vanishing Arctic Sea ice, thawing permafrost, receding glaciers, and record temperatures, at least with both you and Limbaugh.

Creationism is not an observable scientific fact that evolution is. It is religion and it is not science. Period. You are free to believe what you want. You are not free to shove those beliefs into the classroom. This is America, or at least it used to be. Now it is Republistan.

“I am not for the “elites” and wealthy any more than I am for anybody else.” Yes you are. Look at how nearly all your opinions side with them. It is more than obvious.

Look at how we came to have a “corrupt and nearly bankrupt government”. Corporate campaign cash and lobbies, senseless illegal war, Patriot Act totalitarian surveillance state measures, corporate written “free trade” treaties, tax breaks for the elites, and massive corporate welfare, are all the results of the Right’s war on democracy. Do you really think they want everyone to have equal opportunities and representation in their bought and paid for government? “Every man for himself” and “you’re on your own” are your values. Fine. That’s not how a free Constitutional democratic republic functions. General welfare is in the Constitution whether you like it or not.

If we had better educated, literate and responsible parents, poor teachers wouldn’t be the real problem, now would they? Public education means taxes and the Right hates that.

“Victimhood mentality” is exactly what Limbaugh and Palin specialize in. Poor, poor, helpless ignorant arrogant rich jerks they are.

Weaseldog said...

Dusty,Hells most vocal Bitch said..., "For the fucking love of Christ, the loans to the auto industry are being paid back and we are actually making money off them. Wtf is wrong w/people that they would bitch about bailing out a company that actually manufactures something, unlike the Wall St bailouts."

These arguments keep coming back again and again.

I'll repeat again how the shell game is played.

1. The Corp gives preferred stock that is wildly over valued to the gov in exchanged for money.
2. The corp exchanges common stock that is widely over valued, for the preferred stock at a dramatically undervalued price.
3. The corp the buys back the common stock at a dramatically undervalued price.

By using additional stock issuances, the game can be replayed a few times.

Magically, the loan is 'completely' repaid at pennies on the dollar.

GM and the banks all played this game of 'Stick it to the Taxpayer'.

Unknown said...

Weaseldog, so you did not support the bailout of the auto industry? I would rather throw money at that industry than the Wall Streeters, and I am not someone that fully grasps the way all this crap worked, so my ignorance could be construed as bliss I guess.

Saving a shitload of jobs works for for regular folks, not those assholes on Wall St who actually got bonuses for bringing our economy to it's knees.

Dave Dubya said...

Thanks for the lesson in modern "Corp-enomics".