MAGA/Zionist Axis

 

Regular readers will recall my disputes with fellow blogger, arch-conservative, and Trump supporter Darrell. Darrell now has an ally in Infidel, another blogger who refuses to allow my comments.

I’ve been keeping track of Infidel’s newfound faith in Trump and his war on Iran. He knows Trump lied about Iran being “two weeks” from hitting the US with a nuclear weapon. He probably knows Trump lies every day, but this time is somehow different. It’s all about “freeing Iran”, no matter how many innocents are killed and how much suffering we inflict. Some of us are reminded of the Vietnam War when, “It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.” 

Like Trump, he doesn’t want to hear any disagreement or questions on his views. He never publishes my remarks, as his privilege. As Trump said, “Sometimes you need a dictator”.

So why am I bothering to question his pro-war beliefs? Primarily because he summarily dismisses my views as simple partisanship at best and “morally depraved antisemitism” at worst. His accusations that I am part of the “most twisted and ugly and morally depraved elements within the US” and of the “ignorantsia” who “took to the streets protesting against the operation to free Iran”.

If he thinks I’m a “most twisted and ugly and morally depraved” member of the “ignorantsia”, then I’ll dare to give him another reason to demean and insult me.

It is time again for my inner "villain" to utter the most politically incorrect, snark-seasoned, and semi-facetious opinion in America.

 

The nation of Israel was formed by UN resolution 181 in August 1947 and became a nation in 1948. UN Resolution 181 has proven to be a tragic blunder that assured endless war. It became an endless path to hell paved with good intentions. Let's remove religion, "God's chosen people", WWII, and ancient history from the equation.

I propose Resolution 181 be rescinded or amended to let Palestine be Palestine where Jews and Arabs lived together for centuries. I would allow one of our deep red states be the new Jewish State, in addition to ending all weapons shipments to the rogue state of Israel. (It's still a better deal than the US ever gave to Native Americans.)

We could finally make Washington DC the 50th state, so the flag would stay the same.

Yes, I know it's impractical and nearly impossible, but so is peace in the Middle East.

I'm open to any better idea...if there is one.

Despite how ludicrous this may sound, I've yet to hear a better suggestion for a way out of this mass madness.

Infidel is a Zionist. It seems being anti-Israeli government is antisemitism as far as he’s concerned. This is also what AIPAC’s central message has become, as Infidel dismisses the idea that Israel has any influence on Trump joining Netanyahu’s war.

He never acknowledges Netanyahu’s or his IDF’s war crimes. His empathy lies only with Israeli victims of violence. Palestinians who are beaten, killed, and forcefully evicted from their homes in Gaza and the West Bank are not on his radar. He even suggests they had it coming. Israelis are never the bad guys. 

His words are italicized below:

We will soon be hearing -- have already been hearing -- from the most twisted and ugly and morally depraved elements within the US.  The types who view this conflict as just one more opportunity for petty domestic political point-scoring.  The ones who would happily leave the theocracy in power in Iran, at a staggering cost in human suffering, if they fear its fall might be perceived as a "win" for Trump.  The vile Israel-haters of the far left and far right have already oozed forth with their Der Stürmer conspiratardia about evil Jewish manipulation of the US.  Don't listen to them.

This works one way. I would never accuse anyone who would "happily leave the dictators in power in China, Russia and North Korea, at a staggering cost in human suffering", if he didn't cheer for Trump starting a war with them.

The “conspiratardia” would include everyone who clearly understands Netanyahu and Hegseth pressured Trump to join Isreal’s war. As I noted, Trump’s director of the National Counterterrorism Center Joe Kent resigned saying: “I cannot in good conscience support the ongoing war in Iran. Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, and it is clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby."

Behold the “ignorantsia”: Most Americans know very little about Iran, so they view this situation entirely through the lens of US politics -- thus their reactions to it are irrelevant.

Never mind Trump’s war is already having serious impacts on every American who has difficulty in affording what is essentially his dollar per gallon war tax. This will raise prices for food and other essentials. “Petty domestic political point-scoring”? No. We’re way beyond that. Consequences are felt here and across the world. 

And speaking of consequences, what happens to US airmen who are shot down and captured in Iran after Reichsfuherer Hegseth declared, "No quarter!"? War crimes beget war crimes. Bombing a bridge and returning to bomb it again with rescuers working on it is a war crime. Or so the "ignorantsia" would assert.

"My point is, Israel's enemies are proven liars.  They lie and lie and lie."

Yes, they do. Too bad Iran's enemies are also proven liars who lie and lie and lie.

BTW, Putin is the real winner. Again. He's raking in extra billions as we Americans pay dearly for gas and soon enough, paying more for everything else.

All because liars promise unicorns and rainbows in the Middle East if they kill enough people and “bomb them back to the stone ages”. Again, some of us are old enough to remember how well that same slogan worked in the Vietnam War.

“Trump can't keep track of what he's doing or planning. That's typical of a person with dementia. But the military knows what they're doing, and so does Netanyahu…Any such operation involves risks, but at least now there's hope.”

In other words, it’s war criminal Netanyahu’s war being joined by a demented war criminal American as Commander-in-Chief. The demented criminal commander has a sycophantic propagandist as head of the Department of Defense who has been actively denying promotions of black and female officers, while purging the higher ranks of anyone who questions, or is perceived as disloyal, to Trump .

What could go wrong? Is starting a war based on lies and “hope” wise? How many deaths are an acceptable sacrifice for lies and hope? How great a financial burden for working class and poor Americans is acceptable for lies and hope?

For an atheist, Infidel seems to have extraordinary faith in an indicted felon and war criminal president and his politicized military. I would suggest he examine the results of Trump’s politicized DHS and DOJ for some insight into how all this may develop. But of course, that would be the perspective of the “morally depraved, Israel-hating ignorantsia”.

Following this pattern of demonization, I expect the absurd accusation of “America-hating” to follow soon from the MAGA/Zionist axis of war enthusiasts. 

 

MAGA Fools Day

 

Keeping Score

 

How many times have Trump and his Iran War supporters lectured us about the “thousands of Americans killed by Iran”? How many still believe Trump when he keeps saying, “We won this war!”?

I’ve lost count on both questions, but “thousands of Americans killed by Iran” sounds like a great reason go to war with them, though.

Lets’ leave Israel and Netanyahu out of the discussion for moment, even though they goaded Trump into joining their war.

One Trumpist gloated in a previous comment thread.

The “Colonel”: We are doing something that NO OTHER AMERICAN PRESIDENT HAD THE BALLS TO DO.

IRAN has been killing OUR SOLDIERS, and our Citizens for 47 years. TRUMP is Finally ENDING THAT CRAP.

He’s echoing Trump, of course. No other president worked for Netanyahu and Putin either. Putin thanks him for HUGE oil profits, and Netanyahu thanks him for fighting his war for him.

Trump is doing EXACTLY what he promised NOT to do and what George W. Bush did. They BOTH started wars of choice in their acts of aggression in the Middle East. 

The White House posted a long list of Americans killed by “Iran” titled, “The Iranian Regime’s Decades of Terrorism Against American Citizens”.

“For nearly half a century, the Islamic Republic of Iran — the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism — has killed and maimed American citizens and service members through its own forces and proxy militias. More Americans have been killed by Iran than any other terrorist regime on Earth.”

Note the inclusion of “proxy militias”. Very few were direct actions by Iran’s “own forces” against Americans. Almost all the cases of Americans being killed were preceded by “Iran-backed”, or “affiliated” entities.

I asked the colonel a few rhetorical questions. I mean “rhetorical” in the sense no answers are expected. Trump supporters HATE answering questions.

What kind of colonel thinks starting a war will end killing? A MAGA "colonel".

How many American children has Iran killed? None. We killed Iranian children without so much as an apology. (Retired intelligence officer Captain Josephine Guilbeau explained how the cameras on the Tomahawk missiles would indicate their target was a school. But they launched another one instead of confirming the target. She calls it terrorism, and she's correct by definition.)

How many American soldiers were killed by Iran?

Now we’re getting to the question at hand. Let’s look at some facts and historical context

The answer is very few directly, but by their Arab allies in Lebanon and Iraq. 

Reagan put Marines in harm's way with no military objective and they were killed by an “Iran-backed” suicide bomber. 

After Bush LIED about WMD’s and Saddam working with al-Qaeda HE STARTED the Iraq war. We have no way of knowing how many Americans were killed by Iranians in Iraq. We know they were invited to assist in resisting the American occupiers. This was all due to US aggression. Americans seem to have forgotten that the guy who starts wars of choice is the guy to blame for the deaths and destruction.

Bottom line: Excluding Afghanistan where Iran wasn’t a participant, all those Americans died because of misguided or dishonest actions by US presidents. The American deaths number in the thousands.

What kind of colonel can't see this pattern?

So, let’s look at the body count.

Thousands of American troops were killed by Iraqis, many with Iranian help. Obviously, not all of the thousands of casualties were inflicted by Iranians or proxies, but let’s count them anyway, just for argument’s sake.

If "Iran-backed" entities count, then US-backed Israel and US-backed Iraq have slaughtered HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Arabs and Iranians in Iran, Gaza, Lebanon, and in Israel. The body count from Trump's war is already in the thousands in Iran.

How’s that for perspective?

Hundreds of thousands of Iranians were killed by America-backed Iraq alone.

From AI:

During the 1980–1988 Iran-Iraq War, the United States provided significant covert and overt support to Iraq, including billions in economic aid, intelligence, and dual-use technology, to prevent an Iranian victory. This included intelligence sharing, over $200 million in direct arms sales (like helicopters), and allowing the sale of chemical/biological weapon precursors.

This all came back to bite us. Iraq and Iran were terrible regimes, but the US is definitely not the good guy in the Middle East. Only the peace activists are the good guys. Israel, Iran, and the US are not among them.

“When you get into trouble 5,000 miles from home, you've got to have been looking for it.” ~ Will Rogers

 

THAT's the crap that needs to end, or we're looking at MORE AMERICANS getting killed by terrorists.

I'm the "Villain" Again

 

Once again fellow bloggers Infidel and Darrell inspire my politically incorrect rant and despicable thoughts. 

Since both Darrell and Infidel have silenced my views from their comment threads, I’ll once again offer my snark-seasoned, yet somehow rational, remarks here. Readers may recall my thoughts about their positions on Trump’s war in a previous post.

Since I’m getting comfortable being the outcast and villain at both Infidel’s and Darrell’s blogs, I’ll be happy to extend this discussion here at my blog.

 ~~~~~~~~~~~

Infidel:

The regime's thugs had specifically ordered hospital staff not to help wounded people.  It has always been well known that rape and torture of detainees is part of the theocracy's standard treatment of dissidents.  This is part of what will just go on and on with no end in sight, if the regime is not overthrown.

----

Does this remind anyone else of ICE? Despite ramifications of the Criminal President Trump’s war of choice in the US and across the globe, Infidel doesn’t want any discussion of domestic politics around the War Criminal’s war. But this paragraph BEGS for it.

Yes, let’s ignore the Criminal President and his ICE thugs for taking the same path. That stuff is only bad when Iranians do it, right?

Pay no attention to how ICE thugs ordered a doctor away from examining Renee Goode, who was just murdered by one of them. After all, she and Alex Pretti were just a couple “domestic terrorists” who got what they deserved. We’re NOTHING like Iran, amirite? Just accept Hegseth’s wrapping his war in Christianity because that’s nothing like Christian nationalist theocracy. 

Pay no attention to the rapes, abuse, and neglect suffered by thousands of non-violent immigrants in Trump’s concentration camps. We mustn’t draw attention to how our Criminal Crusader demands dissidents he calls “traitors” to be arrested by his corrupted and politicized “Justice” Department.

Let’s forget about all the summary executions in Minneapolis, on the open seas, in Venezuela, or in Trump’s next war on Cuba. Hospital patients on ventilators are dying as his embargo on their oil is shutting down their electricity. (You commies got a problem with that?)

 

And finally let’s not consider the extreme likelihood that Trump’s reckless bombing of scores of schoolgirls will only inflame MORE anti-American terrorism. Or will their families also “greet us with flowers” like in Iraq? But what do I know? I’m not an “expert” on the Middle East and this is no time to consider the lessons to be drawn from America’s tragic history of meddling in the Middle East. Fear not, for Donald Trump is the “only one” who can fix it.

Yeah, that’s the ticket.

---

Infidel pronounces his judgment for those of us who dissent:

We will soon be hearing -- have already been hearing -- from the most twisted and ugly and morally depraved elements within the US.  The types who view this conflict as just one more opportunity for petty domestic political point-scoring.  The ones who would happily leave the theocracy in power in Iran, at a staggering cost in human suffering, if they fear its fall might be perceived as a "win" for Trump.  The vile Israel-haters of the far left and far right have already oozed forth with their Der Stürmer conspiratardia about evil Jewish manipulation of the US.  Don't listen to them.

---

Um, didn’t Trump’s director of the National Counterterrorism Center Joe Kent just resign, saying: “I cannot in good conscience support the ongoing war in Iran. Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, and it is clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby."

We are advised, “Don’t listen to them”, so forget about Netanyahu pressuring his fellow authoritarian Trump to join his war. It never happened if we don’t think about it, or read about it, or notice his six visits with Trump in the past year. To do so would be tantamount to “happily leaving the theocracy in power in Iran”, or something like that.

For suggesting Trump is only compounding the suffering and deaths of Iranians and Israelis alike, it would seem Darrell and Infidel would agree that I represent “the most twisted and ugly and morally depraved elements within the US”.  But, hey, not everybody can be as moral as Netanyahu, Donald Trump, and his henchmen. People like me just can’t keep from objecting to a war of choice waged by war criminals who have been feeding us their lies and unbridled hate all along.  It seems our “petty domestic political point-scoring” is clearly transforming us into being “antisemitic” and “anti-American”. This demonization and smearing is what we get for objecting to a reckless and incompetent war criminal, but I’m used to it by now.

If only we’d just keep repeating, “Iran was two weeks away from a nuclear weapon and we’d all be dead by now if not for Trump and Netanyahu”. It would make us FEEL so much better about Trump’s FEELING the need to start a war. For good measure, and adding a touch of Christian nationalism, we may join with Hegseth in asking Americans to pray “in the name of Jesus Christ” for a victory in the Iran War. For God is ALWAYS on America’s side, and always on Israel’s side, no matter how many kids we kill. Can I get an amen?

Now it’s time for a “real American Patriot” to chime in.

=

Darrell:
I do not understand the antisemitism and the cheering for America to fail simply to not give the opposing political party a "win". That is a twisted way of thinking and a complete lack on awareness of the evils of the Iranian regime perpetrated over nearly 50 years. The ignorance and unwitting support for such an evil theocratic regime by some Americans is disgusting. I pray that the Iranian people stand up and finish the job to remove the theocracy and to govern themselves.

=

Infidel:

Darrell: It's the result of how toxic and polarized politics has become. Scoring points over the other "team" has become more important than actually getting positive goals accomplished. Most Americans know very little about Iran, so they view this situation entirely through the lens of US politics -- thus their reactions to it are irrelevant.

------

Indeed. Objecting to Trump joining war criminal Netanyahu’s war is now “cheering for America to fail” or at the minimum displaying one’s “ignorance and unwitting support for such an evil theocratic regime”.

Speaking of the Israeli war criminal with the blood of tens of thousands of children on his hands, he’s showing the same affection for dictators as our Tangerine Tyrant.

Infidel and Darrell share a blind faith in Dear Leader’s blundering, brutal, and bloody aggression, accepting any cost to America, and refusing to hold a vile tyrant like Trump accountable for his war crimes. I will not and cannot agree with this.

I cannot find comfort in whatever the war’s consequences may be for the rest of us. Would paying higher gas and energy prices that leaves less money for food, shelter and healthcare for Americans also be "irrelevant"? Would a recession and increased terrorism be equally "irrelevant"? I suppose 13 dead Americans in uniform and their mourning families are "irrelevant". (How many more Americans must die before it WOULD be relevant? Again, I’m not the expert that the pro-Trump war folks are. If experts like Bibi, Trump, Darrell, and Infidel can accept 10,000 dead Americans and a million dead Iranians why should it bother me?) 

And is it also "irrelevant" that Trump's pal Putin is the only clear winner in this war? With sanctions lifted and his oil profits doubling, Putin can slaughter more Ukrainians. Another gift to Putin from Trump via Iranians is how to shoot down US F-35 jets.

So far this is all acceptable with Infidel and Darrell, even without the fall of the theocratic regime in Iran. All glory to our criminal Dear Leader. 

What happens in the event this Khamenei to Khamenei succession is the only regime change we’ll get? Do we proceed to invade and occupy Iran? Do we keep bombing Iran in perpetuity, or until a bloody civil war breaks out with both sides hating us? Is no cost in lives and treasure too high? Is this our nation's most urgent priority? Oops. BAD Dave! No more treasonous, antisemitic, twisted and ugly and morally depraved questions from YOU!

The Criminal President’s Crusade for Goodness shouldn’t be questioned. That would be downright unpatriotic, pro-theocratic tyranny, and probably communism. Right, Darrell? For in addition to being a communist, I’m now “twisted and ugly and morally depraved”, unlike the Party of Trump suppressing the Epstein files. After all, it’s ONLY child molesting and rape, for Pete’s sake. I’m guessing that stuff is also only bad when Iranians do it.

Maybe there’s a final solution for people like me who dissent. Republicans are working on it. It begins with demonizing us as communists, Ayatollah lovers, and domestic terrorists, followed by blatant suppression of our free press and our right to vote, assembly and free speech.

But never mind all that. We should just remember we’ve always been at war with Iran. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. And we love Big Brother Don the Con for protecting us, destroying evil, and liberating the world.

Our stable genius couldn’t possibly fail. As the malevolent and mendacious man Infidel and Darrell trust to fix Iran and the Middle East said, “Sometimes you need a dictator”. 

Why not give this fascist criminal and protector of child molesters with unaccountable "presidential immunity" more power to do whatever he wants?

What could possibly go wrong?

Robert Mueller

Robert Mueller has died. As we remember him for his military and civil service to our country, let's not forget how he was maligned and undermined by Trump and his henchmen for his honorable service.

Presidents with a basic sense of decency offered their condolences.

Remember when the white supremacist and MAGA hero Charlie Kirk was killed? Flags were lowered to half staff for this great "patriot" and anyone not mourning him would be called an America-hating commie by MAGA "Christian" Nationalists.

Now that a real hero and combat veteran of the Vietnam War died, they crap on his memory.

And what do we see from our criminal president?

Too many Americans are so morally deranged they see Trump as the hero and Mueller as the villain.

Robert Mueller was the opposite of Donald Trump. He was a man of honor, service, and the rule of law. Trump will be known as the worst president and among the worst human beings in American history.

"Winning"

 

Let’s bask in Trump’s framing of his glorious war as it has developed so far.

1. “We won!”

2. “We’re winning!”

3. “Send help!”

“Meet the new Khamenei, worse than the old Khamenei.” "Sorry/not sorry about those schoolgirls. But, hey, we'll 'investigate' the bombing of their school, so deal with it". 

So far Putin seems to be the war's biggest winner with the rising prices of oil.

Hegseth's threats of more war crimes like, "No quarter", and Trump's stupid demands like "unconditional surrender" won't win this war. They won't even take us closer to negotiating a ceasefire.

Meanwhile in America and Europe.

Trump’s director of the National Counterterrorism Center Joe Kent resigned, saying: “I cannot in good conscience support the ongoing war in Iran. Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, and it is clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby."

All of Trump’s insults, bullying, threats, idiocy about annexing Greenland, wildly arbitrary tariffs, etc. directed at allies are bearing their fruits. Even the Wall Street Journal gets it:

A majority of people in Canada, the U.K., Germany, and France now say it’s better to depend on China than on the U.S. under Trump. 

Yes, this is what "winning" looks like.

And now it’s time for the American people to pay Trump’s war tax at the gas pumps. But rejoice in the good news that someone’s celebrating that economic burden on Americans. "The United States is the largest Oil Producer in the World, by far, so when oil prices go up, we make a lot of money”.

 

Will "we" really "make a lot of money"? 

But be of good cheer, America.  Trump’s gas prices, impending rise of inflation, and likely recession are all GOOD for America, and it’s our patriotic duty to shell out more of our money for his noble and wise war. And while we're at it, let's send a few more $billion to Netanyahu to bomb and win the hearts and minds of his neighbors.

This is what "America first" is all about.

Just remember MAGA’s admonition if we don’t support Trump and his war. Failure to cheer for our Tangerine Tyrant will mean we’re all “traders” who hate America and support the Iranian theocracy.

When have Trump and MAGA ever been wrong?

Why, Again?

 

Trump’s war with Iran is understandably celebrated by Iranian exiles who hope to see their country restored. To what, I’m not sure. May their best wishes come true. Almost anything would be better than the brutal theocracy Iran endures.

That said, I get that not everybody wants to hear my opinion on Trump's war. Fine. War fever tends to inflame emotions over rationality. This tragedy was inevitable with Iran, Israel, and the US all under the rule of authoritarian war criminals. 

Two bloggers who’d rather not consider my thoughts are Infidel and Darrell Michaels. (They don’t allow my comments at their blogs and Darrell accused me of being a communist.) The former says I’m part of the "ignorantsia", and the latter says, critics “either don’t know and understand the history with Iran and the evil that the regime has perpetrated, or they simply hate Trump more than they love their own country. Often times I think both are factors.”

Obviously, no discussion is possible with anyone who demeans those who question Trump’s war. Nothing new there. The same ilk would call me a “communist” for opposing the war in Vietnam and a “terrorist sympathizer” for opposing Bush’s Iraq war that was also based on lies.  

Somehow I bet they don’t want to be reminded that the US killed far more innocent Vietnamese and Iraqis than Iran has Israelis and Americans. With war all values become “flexible”.

However, I do share Darrell's and Infidel's hope that Iran will recover from this war and life will be better for their people.

I will always celebrate the demise of tyrants, be they Atheist, Muslim, Christian or Jew. There's no shortage of human carnage caused by authoritarian rulers claiming to be godly. I think it's somewhere between naive and foolish to expect a democracy to pop up from the ashes in Iran. The same goes for any good will towards Israel and the US after we slaughter thousands of Iranians, including school children.

As the Christian Nationalist Trump supporters are joined by budding new neocons in cheering the bombing of Iran, there are a couple glaring issues that are absent from their rhetoric.

Nobody wants to discuss WHY this mess happened in the first place. And bombs won’t fix it.

One Trump War supporter did mention some historical background.

Mosaddegh led the first serious attempt to bring real democracy to Iran and expel foreign domination, only to be overthrown by the US/British-backed coup of 1953 which restored the rule of the Shāh.  Most Americans have barely heard of him, but this history is well-known in Iran. ~ Infidel

Infidel has touched on one reason why the US isn’t loved in Iran. Yes, with help from Britain, Good Ol’ America is why Iran was a dictatorship that fell to theocracy. The reason? Oil. Mosaddegh had the nerve to declare their the oil belonged to Iran, so he had to go. The west wanted a dictator to partner with their exploitation and control of Iranian resources.

We couldn’t leave well enough alone and planted the seeds of dictatorship that ripened Iran into a theocratic coup.

Let’s go back to the question why.

Zionist Israel and radical Islam are the other reasons for the conflict.  Bottom line. Yes, good old time religion is bearing it’s sanguine fruits again. One side says God wants them to take land from Muslims and the other says God wants them to kill Jews.

Every pro-war voice I've seen pretends democracy is the goal. Right. Have they looked in America’s mirror lately? Trump is already demanding Iran give him their oil (Surprise!) and to let him anoint their next leader.

This war is Israel’s war, and Trump wanted a piece of the action. It is a war of choice started by two authoritarian war criminals. Trump is joining the Butcher of Gaza in spreading more death and chaos in the Middle East that will have global consequences.

I don't buy the ever shifting justifications from the Trump Regime. They LIED about Iran having missiles that could reach the US. They LIED about Iran being close to a nuclear weapon. The best they have is their lame and paranoid hypothetical argument, (that is, Trump’s FEELING)  that Iran would attack the US military when Israel assassinated Khamenei. Israel killed Khamenei and are USING Trump as their enforcer.

Who’s going to pay the higher cost for gas and goods? Who’s paying for the war and reconstruction? You can bet it won’t be Trump and Netanyahu. Americans are now paying in lives as well as treasure in service to the butcher Netanyahu. Nobody can calculate the costs that Iranians will be facing.

A pox on both their houses, and on the Criminal President’s authoritarian regime. My heart goes out to all their innocent victims.