tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post174375109320348177..comments2024-03-28T12:43:07.327-04:00Comments on Dave Dubya's Freedom Rants: Individual RightsDave Dubyahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comBlogger207125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-68149623696716816412013-10-05T20:18:13.144-04:002013-10-05T20:18:13.144-04:00Wallmart doesn't have armed guards, but if I w...Wallmart doesn't have armed guards, but if I was a security guard, what's wrong with that? I'm sure it would be so much more noble of me if I opted for food stamps and a HUD house instead eh?free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-30851191522532075892013-10-05T15:51:37.932-04:002013-10-05T15:51:37.932-04:00gees, haven't been here in awhile.
Free is sti...gees, haven't been here in awhile.<br />Free is still popping BS anecdotes, huh.<br /><br />//I got out of the military and got a job.// still toting his gun around the good old WalMart parking lot.<br /><br />I think he should run for Congress. They are spewing a lot of BS from the House these days. Gree would fit right in.<br />Say, Gree, tell us how it is that Obama shut down the government....<br /><br />sorry Dave...the pod bay door was open. and I am tired of the news.okjimmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11013002335848390765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-14220325926821621642013-10-05T03:43:58.377-04:002013-10-05T03:43:58.377-04:00Maybe. If you have a successful marriage, you'...Maybe. If you have a successful marriage, you're probably doing what I'm doing. Only I don't give it the popular word "communication" I call it what it is.<br /><br />Living up to your end of the bargain. free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-10670049380005989402013-10-03T19:57:24.990-04:002013-10-03T19:57:24.990-04:00Looks like we're ready to open our marriage co...Looks like we're ready to open our marriage counseling service. For fees of course.Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-63523438567372121712013-10-03T19:38:53.358-04:002013-10-03T19:38:53.358-04:00Charity is fine, if that is your choice. But ther...Charity is fine, if that is your choice. But there are other options. I give to several military fraternal organizations - who might just be there for me if I need them. See, I give, but I get a benefit. And I did it by choice - unlike say foodstamps where I get no choice what so ever.<br /><br />As for all the reasons you mentioned why marriages break up, all of them should be discussed prior to a marriage. Take the attractiveness factor. Not many people I know, what to be married to someone who doesn't take care of themselves or is so obese they need one of those scooters to get around the Wallmart. So before you tie that knot, you need to tell your future spouse that is a deal breaker. If that is a problem, you probably shouldn't get married in the first place. And if one party breaks the deal, they should take the hit when the marital estate is split. <br /><br /><br /><br />free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-12973768921489751852013-10-03T11:22:13.937-04:002013-10-03T11:22:13.937-04:00Altruism is when you give through a concern for ot...Altruism is when you give through a concern for others without expecting or asking anything in return. One example is what you call "supporting the troops" and their families by offering donations of cash, goods, or services apart from tax dollar support. Is that a bad thing?<br /><br />Other examples would the simple common decencies of helping someone struggling with a task or load, or just giving a stranded driver a lift to a gas station. It's not always about "getting something in return". <br /><br />"Disrespect" may be the term reflecting the injured feelings of a married partner, but it's not that simple. What happens often are disagreements on financial issues, loss of physical attraction, lifestyle incompatibility, substance abuse, and breakdown of communication, compromise and cooperation. <br /><br />Something, after all, must lead to, and contribute to, the feeling of disrespect.<br /><br /><i>Did you guys ever sit down and outline your responsibilities to each other?</i><br /><br />That's a good question, and very few couples do that. Personally, my wife and I discussed and agreed to make communication, compromise and cooperation priorities in our marriage. Those, along with love and compatibility, are extremely important.<br /><br />It's sad how most couples never even consider, let alone prioritize, those basics. Love is vital, but there can't be mutual respect without those thee "C's" <br />Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-9242481003792834412013-10-03T07:06:57.335-04:002013-10-03T07:06:57.335-04:00Well its true isn't it Dave? If someone gives...Well its true isn't it Dave? If someone gives, someone gets. Altruism is when you give without getting anything in return.<br /><br />Commonly known as getting ripped off. Getting repeatedly ripped off, is not the basis for a good relationship of any kind. Generally people get sick of that, and get resentful quick. Now suppose we questioned some marriage counselors. How many do you think deal with resentment on a case by case basis? 100% Yeah probably. Just perhaps thats why most marriages suck for the people trapped in them. You learn a few things sitting in divorce court for two years like I did out of my four years as bailiff. I couldn't tell you how many divorces I saw. I didn't count. Hundreds, if not thousands. And the leading cause wasn't infidelity, or child abuse believe it or not. The overwhelming cause I saw, was one party felt disrespected by the other party. And I always wanted to ask... but it wasn't my place, but I always wanted to ask - Did you guys ever sit down and outline your responsibilities to each other? I have no idea what the answers would have been, but I'd bet the farm the answer would have been no. free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-28320995852239168992013-10-02T19:34:57.806-04:002013-10-02T19:34:57.806-04:00Whenever someone is being altruistic, someone else...<i>Whenever someone is being altruistic, someone else is being selfish.</i><br /><br />Dogma time. And don't forget, selfishness is virtue. Win win.Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-89124555512930163502013-10-02T18:45:30.846-04:002013-10-02T18:45:30.846-04:00Yeah I'm sure when the doctors weren't sur...Yeah I'm sure when the doctors weren't sure I'd ever walk again - that was no big deal.<br /><br />Humans have always, and will always, take care of each other; sure. And I'm sure if I treated my wife like crap, she probably wouldn't do that for me. Nor I her. She has to expect to get something out of our marriage before I can expect to get something. Authoritarian would be me barking orders, and expecting something for nothing. Me being an idiot, would be giving all I had to be treated like shit.<br /><br />Whenever someone is being altruistic, someone else is being selfish. When someone is sacrificing, someone is reaping that sacrifice. I prefer mutually beneficial. That has to be the basis.<br /><br /><i>But when one's only measure of value is dollar signs, we don't expect you to reflect the best of human nature.</i> <br /><br />Why? People will go a lot farther for profit than they will charity. Its not like you can't make something or get something and not have a win-win situation. That was the whole premise of Objectivism. <br /><br /><i>Free0352 attempted to play the sympathy card as a means of deflection</i><br /><br />You obviously missed the point. I don't need, nor want sympathy. I have pride - and pride is not a bad thing. Its maybe the greatest of things. I can take care of myself just fine... even when I can't walk or feel me left leg. I proved that, and I have every right to have pride in that. Even when bad things happen to people - as they do everyone - you are still responsible for yourself. It was never even up for discussion in my house when I was wounded, that my wife should stay home and take care of me. She needs to be independent, she needs to be self sufficient. Those two things are the very root of self esteem. Without them, you become miserable. And why be married to someone if it makes you miserable? free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-63295176440271638662013-10-02T18:40:13.749-04:002013-10-02T18:40:13.749-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-56612729678624498602013-10-02T18:35:59.097-04:002013-10-02T18:35:59.097-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-45070349129797785622013-10-02T17:00:36.424-04:002013-10-02T17:00:36.424-04:00Dave Dubya: "There, that should tie this all ...<b>Dave Dubya</b>: "<i>There, that should tie this all together.</i>"<br /><br />Yes, it was perfect...<br /><br />(It's funny how Free0352 attempted to play the sympathy card as a means of deflection. War injuries...kid out of wedlock...he's just beginning to come face-to-face with life's "little inconveniences" and twists and turns of fate. Maybe he'll get the chance to experience it into old age. Something tells me, though, that he won't.) Jefferson's Guardianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16950868026721859555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-72679119586709568892013-10-02T11:56:56.481-04:002013-10-02T11:56:56.481-04:00So in my marriage we've been there done that.
...<i>So in my marriage we've been there done that.</i><br /><br />You think so? Really? Man, that is arrogance and ignorance rolled into one.<br /><br />Age will take its toll, if you're lucky enough to get old. That's a promise. Accidents and disease still await you. Sorry, you ain't 'been there, done that" yet. <br /><br />And if one of you becomes infirm due to accident or illness, then what? What happens after a stroke, heart attack, West Nile disease, etc.? Protein source if your "ethics" prevail.<br /><br />Or you may awaken to what love and altruism really are. Perhaps some day wisdom will replace your cold blooded Randroid ideology. But I doubt it. As an authoritarian personality, you need to refuse to consider the possibility that you have not "been there done that". <br /><br />Humans have always, and will always, take care of each other. It is the best of our nature, not the worst. And it is not reserved for comrades in combat. You seem to get that part. Perhaps it's fear of dishonor over altruism. But when one's only measure of value is dollar signs, we don't expect you to reflect the best of human nature. <br /><br />And this is exactly why corporations are not persons and not citizens, and should not be given collective rights that dominate over individual rights. <br /><br />There, that should tie this all together.Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-91485269595939226532013-10-01T23:33:46.561-04:002013-10-01T23:33:46.561-04:00It still doesn't explain "why" you h...<i>It still doesn't explain "why" you had a child</i><br /><br />My daughter was born the summer between my junior and senior year of highschool. It certainly wasn't my intent to be a dad a few months before turning 18.<br /><br />I had to quit sports and work 40 hours a week in addition to high school, and lost my slot at a service academy because the service academy's won't take you if you have dependents.<br /><br />Again, I didn't wallow in self pity and cry and moan or give up my responsibility. Do I love my kid? Sure. That means I set high standards for her, so she can meet them and learn to be successful and self sufficient. Coddling your children is tantamount to abusing them. free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-4240520617495881502013-10-01T23:27:42.484-04:002013-10-01T23:27:42.484-04:00, your wife were to become traumatically injured i...<i>, your wife were to become traumatically injured in an accident</i><br /><br />The wife remains healthy, but I myself got shot in the leg and four months later got blown up and broke my back and pelvis and spent months in traction. So in my marriage we've been there done that. I spent two months getting strong enough to walk on my own again. As a result of those injuries I had to retire after 15 years. I didn't wallow in self pity and the setbacks of my "disability."<br /><br />I got out of the military and got a job. I remained and remain productive and a contributing member of my family. If you really love people, you don't fail them. My father worked right through both his bouts of chemotherapy - he didn't miss a days work. After one of his cancer surgeries he walked out of the recovery room and went right back out on the dock and knocked out scheduling. He did that as an example to the employees who worked for him and as an example to me. Thats where he set the bar, and where I set it for myself.<br /><br />But I'm sure it would have been much more loving to kick back on the couch and let the wife shoulder the load on her own while I felt sorry for myself when I was wounded? Remember, when someone is being altruistic, someone else is being selfish. <br /><br />free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-56321277689626805062013-10-01T11:17:52.517-04:002013-10-01T11:17:52.517-04:00I'm sure the child was a calculated economic s...I'm sure the child was a calculated economic self interest type decision. Free is above those primal, emotional drives. Or she was his one and only "mistake". <br /><br />The best part of a bottom line, "red line" marriage is you don't have to be concerned about those sappy parts like "in sickness and in health" or the "for better and for worse".<br /><br />Should disability occur, the partner in violation could at least be used as a protein source for the able bodied. <br /><br />Yes, this "rational self interest" would make Rand proud.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-88105191108822674932013-10-01T08:45:48.564-04:002013-10-01T08:45:48.564-04:00Free0352: "The point is she puts out the effo...<b>Free0352</b>: "<i>The point is she puts out the effort, [my wife] contributes. The day she quits, she's done.</i>"<br /><br />If, for example, your wife were to become traumatically injured in an accident, and was no longer able to contribute monetarily to your contractually-validated family unit, would she have crossed your predetermined "red line"? <br /><br /><br />"<i>...there is the family philosophy of free0352 for what its worth. Its all based on <b>pretty much</b> economic incentive.</i>" [bold font my own]<br /><br />"Pretty much", huh?<br /><br />It still doesn't explain "why" you had a child. There's certainly <i>no</i> economic incentive to do so unless you depend upon the labor of a less-mechanized agrarian culture, for example.Jefferson's Guardianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16950868026721859555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-17178033305488767442013-10-01T00:30:22.393-04:002013-10-01T00:30:22.393-04:00That might sound cold and harsh... but here's ...That might sound cold and harsh... but here's the funny thing. Most of my friends are miserable in their marriages. I'm happy, and so is my wife. My wife does her part, and I do mine and that makes harmony. We don't ever scream, yell, insult one another - any of the things I saw on a day-to-day basis working in Family Court for those years. Why? <br /><br />Respect backed up with a contract.<br /><br />So it seems, economics can generate and sustain love. The truth is, self interest is the basis for all functioning relationships. If you're not getting anything out of it... you're not going to care for the person whose doing all the taking. Sacrifice kills marriages IMHO. Raw emotion in my experience, wrecks it.<br /><br />As for how much my wife makes, I'm making more at the moment. But if she pulled ahead, I'd be proud as hell. The point is she puts out the effort, she contributes. The day she quits, she's done.<br /><br />As for my daughter, I have this philosophy that they harder you make your kids work, the less trouble they get into. So since my daughter was in grade school, she's had two options. Work, or extracurricular. School is a given. Obviously, when you have a dad who finds jobs for you as a kid- you find stuff to appease dad. I taught my daughter not only how to work hard, but work smart. She's 16 now and decided the concert band tour in Europe beat out buying a used car. Of course, I have to help out money wise with that and her other passion - horseback ridding - which aren't cheap, but I shell it out. But make no mistake, if my kid came home hooked on dope or adopted a lifestyle that was self destructive, she'd be done. Done. I come from a military family and I run a military family. You have to earn respect in my house. Lose it and there is the door. It may be tough, but you have to set standards as a parent. So my teenager understands there will be no tolerance for acting like Dave's inmates. That to have a place in a family, you have to earn it. That if you do well you should be proud and others will be proud of you. Should you happen to fail, feeling sorry for yourself is not tolerated and you should not tolerate self pity in others. And if you become self destructive, you deserve the full measure of the consequences and your self destruction should not be permitted to effect others.<br /><br />So anyway, there is the family philosophy of free0352 for what its worth. Its all based on pretty much economic incentive. And for me at least, it works well.free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-65537725252618109302013-10-01T00:26:33.459-04:002013-10-01T00:26:33.459-04:00My wife and I have had exactly two fights in seven...My wife and I have had exactly two fights in seven years and by most standards those fights were pretty tame. No yelling or throwing things... I think I slammed a door once. The reason for this, is we have a very clear vision of our marriage. We were both married before. We jokingly call our marriage 2.0, and our ex'es "prototypes."<br /><br />We were both pretty much against getting married ever again because both our first marriages were miserable, but when I got a post overseas the only way she could go with was if we made it legal. We didn't have some romantic proposal, I flat told her I was going to Europe for four years and invited her to come. She and I sat down and on paper outlined what we wanted our marriage to look like. Neither of us wanted to repeat the past.<br /><br />We drew in red-lines so to speak - thats what we call them - and if either of us crossed those lines we made it clear we not only would get divorced; we pretty much mandated it with each other. So yes, if my wife becomes a willing deadbeat, she's done. Goes for me too.<br /><br />We then wrote up a prenuptial agreement that would really financially punish someone who crossed what we called a red line in the event of a divorce. It was very businesslike. At the end, we both signed.<br /><br />Its worked great. Our marriage isn't some sentimental vow, or religious right - its a contract. That doesn't mean we don't love each other and the whole thing was for convenience. We both recognized that love is nice, but people who love each other or at least loved each other get divorced every day. People who love each other do terrible things to one another all the time.<br /><br />This idea that you make it work even when the going gets rough... or you are bound to each other no matter what is what kills it. We both stuck out our fist marriages for too long only to see us bot respectively fail despite the misery and sacrifice we both put in. We both understood that sacrifice usually isn't worth it.<br /><br />For us, what makes our marriage work is very simple - if I make my wife miserable then she WILL leave. Same for me. That keeps us honest. Knowing that if I take out my bad day at work on her one too many times - I not only lose my wife but 75% of the assets. That is a powerful ECONOMIC incentive to treat my wife with respect. I don't respect my wife out of some silly notion of duty or kindness - that kind of so called unconditional love is fleeting. I respect her because she demands that respect with force of law behind it. And I the same with her. We operate on the principle that you can't love someone you don't have respect for. So we demand it of each other. Lose respect, and we walk. Right then. Boom.<br /><br />free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-11691595827736845422013-10-01T00:17:40.676-04:002013-10-01T00:17:40.676-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-63242740204500909302013-10-01T00:06:45.890-04:002013-10-01T00:06:45.890-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-41344853992024170802013-09-29T07:45:39.394-04:002013-09-29T07:45:39.394-04:00Dave Dubya: "Or more likely, she makes a lot ...<b>Dave Dubya</b>: "<i>Or more likely, she makes a lot more money than he does.</i>"<br /><br />Thank you, Dave, I forgot about that! Now that you've mentioned it, I do recall him telling us that his wife made good money. <br /><br />It still doesn't take away from my point -- that not all "gains" can be calculated or measured in economic terms. There are non-economic incentives that play a large part in our cultural values and societal structures, despite what Free0352 wants to believe. <br /><br />Well, that is unless his kids "make [him] very, very happy" (again, his words) because he subs them out to Chinese child-labor factories making Nike shoes.Jefferson's Guardianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16950868026721859555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-18656012018613180672013-09-28T11:39:54.684-04:002013-09-28T11:39:54.684-04:00a lot to gain (your words) from non-economic value...<i>a lot to gain (your words) from non-economic values.</i><br /><br />Or more likely, she makes a lot more money than he does. I admit to being lucky enough to have a wife who earns close to a hundred dollars an hour. (Thank you "free market".) But I married her when she was a grad student.Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-19100155415334364672013-09-28T11:25:23.488-04:002013-09-28T11:25:23.488-04:00Free0352: "Sure in a manner of speaking. Its ...<b>Free0352</b>: "<i>Sure in a manner of speaking. Its no sacrifice to have a wife and daughter. I enjoy the hell out of them. They make me very, very happy. I get a lot out of our relationship. I gain a lot.</i>"<br /><br />Good! At least you agree that <i>everything</i> isn't based upon economic incentive, and there's a <i>lot to gain</i> (your words) from non-economic values. <br /><br />Assume so, and that you haven't changed your stance over the past 24 hours or so.Jefferson's Guardianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16950868026721859555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134372208798387606.post-48952019945036992602013-09-27T01:44:09.863-04:002013-09-27T01:44:09.863-04:00So, I guess you married and decided to have childr...<i>So, I guess you married and decided to have children because of "economic incentive"?</i><br /><br />Sure in a manner of speaking. Its no sacrifice to have a wife and daughter. I enjoy the hell out of them. They make me very, very happy. I get a lot out of our relationship. I <i>gain</i> a lot. I've been divorced, so believe me when I tell you that if the wife wasn't a net positive... I wouldn't be married.free0352https://www.blogger.com/profile/09930138880454672809noreply@blogger.com