Comments on Dave Dubya's Freedom Rants: Post Tea Chat

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2010-10-25T10:23:48.297-04:00

But fat chance those in power will care to ever follow THAT rule. And the unenlightened uninformed masses of proletariat are content to be herded along like sheep as long as they can afford gas and eggs.
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2009-04-26T22:37:00.000-04:00

Dan,

Surely you jest about un-corruptible corporate power. Wealth and power fuel corruption. Non-corporate entities have nowhere near the money Big Business has to influence congress. As I pointed out, corporate lobbyists are often recycled congressmen and other government officials who profit by gaming the system. They are interconnected.

Your assertion that “involvement of government in private business has a nearly perfect record of ineffectiveness” depends on just who is calling what ineffective. Let’s look at the reverse and see what involvement by Big Business in government has produced. The destruction of collective bargaining is one of those accomplishments. I agree large unions are prone to corruption as well. But that needn’t concern you very much. Corporatism, Republicanism and conservatism have done much to destroy organized labor in the US. Union membership has gone from 35 percent in the 1950’s to around 12 percent today. They are on their way to extinction. Notice the decline in standard of living, middle class, and access to healthcare coverage over the same period. Two incomes per family are becoming essential now. Also notice the exponential rise in the ratio of executive compensation to labor wages. These are all consequences of private corporate tampering with government, the public’s only source of protection and advocacy.

I also agree with your point about V.A. mismanagement. However Medicare is also government managed health care. How many people do you know who are receiving Medicare health coverage want to refuse those services, and give the insurance companies money instead?

Rosa Parks? I’m sure that was a typo, but again my point is, bailouts are corporate welfare. Welfare for the poor and disabled is microscopic compared to corporate welfare. It’s fascinating how conservatives always seem to side with the interests of Big Money over the general welfare of the people. Remember that annoying “promote the general welfare” part of the Constitution? That is what we need a law abiding government to do for us. Corporate interests are limited to their bottom line. And that is what often conflicts with our general welfare.

I notice you are well indoctrinated by right wing media by your claim that “honest liberals will admit a significant left slant in today’s media.” So the corporate American media are liberal? Sez who? Apart from Rush, Fox, and other radical right wing blowhards, please show me the independent, objective documented basis for this claim. And I will show you three, four, or more times the cases to the contrary. I’ll begin with the corporate media’s unquestioning parroting of the Bush cartel’s propaganda to invade Iraq. Remember Judith Miller of the “liberal” New York Times? She wrote word for word what the White House told her. Then Cheney went on Meet the Press and pointed to those same articles to “validate” his lies. Remember Chris “We’re all Neocons now” Mathews? Give me a break.

I’ll tell you what else I remember. Not once before the invasion did I hear on a national news broadcast any assertion that the Bushies were feeding us false information. In fact, before the 2004 election, the only person with the guts to say Bush lied was Ron Reagan Jr. I take this stuff very seriously and made every effort to monitor this behavior. The only voices to question the mass propaganda were the truly non-corporate independent journalists.

If the lie about liberal media were remotely true there would no Republicans and few Democrats in DC. We’d have a liberal government instead of Constitution shredding corporatist regime.

Remember the Pharisees and Sadducees? They were the self righteous authoritarian clerics of Jesus’ time. And like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker, and Ted Haggerty of today, they were arrogant greedy hypocrites. If Jesus were a similar authoritarian, our compliance to His teachings would be compulsory. We are given the free will to decide to accept or reject His teachings. And we are offered forgiveness as well. Authoritarians do not forgive. You either comply or are regarded as a traitor or an enemy.

The founders detested the authoritarian monarchy. We were set up with a representative democratic republic. Our democratic institutions are being systematically undermined by corporatism.

Thanks for the dialogue, Dan. You taught me something about CLEC’s. I hope we can learn from each other.

**

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Thanks for looking in, Bro.

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2009-04-26T17:32:00.000-04:00

Spirit and flesh are contrary, one to the other. Spiritual matters are Authoritarian; fleshly matters are anti-Authoritarian, or should be. This was Jesus' message.

Since the beginning of recorded history, avarice has been proven to lead to demise.

When will they ever learn?

Good post, Dave!

I cannot in good conscience lay corruption at the ...

2009-04-26T15:52:00.000-04:00

I cannot in good conscience lay corruption at the feet of corporations. Lobbyist would not have the power they are now afforded if not for the corruption of those serving in government. You must also keep in mind that many non-corporation lobbyists flood the steps of the capital every day. It is our government that bears the responsibility of protecting and defending the people not the corporations. The involvement of government in private business has a nearly perfect record of ineffectiveness. As previously mentioned, the mishandling of the V.A is a perfect example of what we will all face if the government attempts to run healthcare.

It’s funny you should mention telecommunications and government regulation as I worked for five years for AT&T. AT&T was mandated to lease lines to CLEC’s at a discounted rate (below the cost of maintaining the equipment, in fact), required to use their own technicians to repair the CLEC’s lines, and repair them quicker than that of their own or face huge fines (millions of dollars a month were paid out). This continued for years; CLEC’s only provided a company front, never investing in infrastructure or personnel, and why would they? So you see it was only the illusion of competition; subsidized, not by the government this time, but by the company they wished to see suffer.

Make no mistake; unions have become as corrupt as the evil corporations they rail against, precisely the reason I only worked there for five years, but that will be a story for another day.

I can appreciate the Thomas Jefferson quote regarding newspapers and government. New Obama appointee, Rosa Parks, has recently suggested a plan whereby the government would bail out the newspaper industry. The government now has a chunk of the banks and a piece of the auto industry, but I don’t believe even Obama will touch this one.

Surely you jest; even the honest liberals will admit a significant left slant in today’s media.

I stand by observation that a belief in God seems contradictory to an anti-authoritarian stance. You only address a single aspect. Yes, Jesus did defy the authorities of the day and does command us to love one another, but he also demands to be the ultimate authority in our lives. We must surrender to him completely, heart, mind, and soul.

I have no objection to more involvement from ‘the people’ in government, but we can never attain a true democracy and hence will be relegated to only a philosophical discussion of ideals. Our founding fathers realized this and in fact many were wary of a true democracy, and instead they founded a republic.

Dan, Thank you for your comment. I’m glad to see ...

2009-04-25T20:27:00.000-04:00

Dan,

Thank you for your comment. I’m glad to see your interest in this subject.

Here is my position as simply as I can put it. Corporatism is antithetical to democracy. We need more citizen involvement in government and less influence by the big power brokers.

My concern for the expansion of corporatism in our government, media, and culture was first kindled by the words of our last Republican president who was not primarily a corporatist. Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and the Bushes were all company men who could never say no to any demand or request from Big Business. I would also include Carter, Clinton and Obama as corporatists, albeit to somewhat lesser extents. Nobody gets into the White House in these times without being a company player.

None of today’s corporate media like to acknowledge this message in Eisenhower’s Farewell Address on January 17, 1961.

“This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.“

Of course the corporate acquisition of influence in government is not limited to military related industries. We can clearly see the workings of the telecommunications, finance, manufacturing, pharmaceutical, insurance, and large agribusiness sectors as well.

Due to the nature of our system of campaign finance, Big Business has a veritable open channel of legalized bribery. Since the Supreme Court has confused free speech with handing money to politicians, the influence is now institutionalized. Public financed elections would help immensely in solving this situation, but guess who is against that kind of change. Big Money has a lock on our politicians that overcomes any interests or needs of the public.

This is only the foundation of corporatism. The edifice of corporatism has been built by the exponential growth of the lobby industry over the past decades. It is now out of control. Congress itself has become a virtual lobbyist academy. Outgoing congressmen have been moving in droves over to K Street.

Finally the very powerful machinery of corporatism has taken hold to the point where business interests are involved in the actual writing of our laws. You ask how we are to determine too much influence by business. The Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 was largely written by credit card companies. Eighteen corporatist Democratic senators voted with the lock-step Republicans. Now credit card interest rates are exceeding the levels once charged by organized crime syndicates. Don’t you agree this might be a good place to draw the line? How about the influence of the giant telecoms when they got Bush and Obama to amend the FISA law to immunize them for aiding the Bush Administration’s illegal warrantless surveillance of Americans?

And don’t forget the mythical “liberal media” and their lobbying for monopolization in the Telecommunications Act of 1996.
Or maybe we could draw that line at the TARP bank bailouts. Do you see a pattern here of just who is represented in the government? It’s not me and it’s not you and it’s not anyone in our circle of acquaintances. This is something where conservatives and liberals should find mutual concern.

Authoritarians, on the other hand, have no problem with their golden rule. Those with the gold make the rules.

America and the middle class as well as Big Business prospered under regulated capitalism. We need to return to that, ahem, more fair and balanced, system.

Your logic eludes me when you suggest belief in God requires authoritarianism. Jesus was a royal pain to both Roman and Jewish authorities. He taught us to love one another. That is still a radical anti-authoritarian concept towards the interests of wealth and power.

And don’t forget our nation was born of anti-authoritarianism. Revolution against oppressive monarchy is very anti-authoritarian.

I can’t speak for anyone else but those opposed to authoritarianism generally believe in free will and well informed reason, as opposed to blind obedience to political and religious authority figures. Their values are reflected by Thomas Jefferson:

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government."

“If I had to choose between government without newspapers, or newspapers without government, I would unhesitatingly choose the latter.”

Of course this was before conservative American newspapers were owned by the right wing Australian Rupert Murdoch and cult leader Sun Myung Moon.

Dave, Your hatred for corporatism is obvious, evi...

2009-04-24T22:15:00.000-04:00

Dave,

Your hatred for corporatism is obvious, evident in both our conversation and in previous posts on your blog, but I would love to hear your own personal interpretation of anti-corporatism. To what level should we allow business to exist, if at all, and when and who should make the determination a business is exerting too much influence on government and/or oppressing the people?

I did find it quite interesting that in your last response, seemingly to support your traditionalism, you included a couple of biblical quotes. It would seem logical that the belief in God would prohibit any support for an anti-authoritarian point of view, but certainly quoting from the Bible neither obligates one to read nor believe the contents.

Despite research I remain puzzled by what an anti-authoritarian actually believes. The information seems convoluted, often referencing anarchism (especially concerning war), but yet in other instances the authors seem adamant in separating the two completely. Had I been simplistic in my approach I would have stopped after the first article which claimed the bulk of those believing in anti-authoritarianism are simply criminals. Though the author worked diligently to establish a direct link between neurosis, low IQ scores, and anti-authoritarians, he was unsuccessful in convincing me.

Enlighten me with your views and those of your readership if you so choose.

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2009-04-23T15:40:00.000-04:00

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